Is Christ-mass Biblical or Pagan? Man-made or from God?

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Ethan1942

Active member
Jul 23, 2022
205
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#1
"Several of the traditions today strongly associated with Christmas have a very long history indeed, even pre-dating the Christmas celebration itself. Early Christianity sought to distance itself from pagan practices and so later Roman emperors closed down ancient sacred sites, prohibited rituals, and ended sporting games that had once honoured pagan gods. However, changing the habits of ordinary people was a different matter. The pagan festival of Saturnalia had been particularly popular, and its traditions that had endured for a millennium were, in many cases, simply transferred to the new festival of Christmas.

Saturnalia was a week-long Roman festival held between the 17th and 23rd of December that honoured the agricultural god Saturn, nicely encompassing the winter solstice, another event of significance in the pagan calendar. The fact that this was the merriest of all Roman holidays probably derived from Saturn's role as a ruler when the world was basking in a golden age of happiness and prosperity. The festival, which dates back to the 5th century BCE, was described by the 1st-century BCE Roman poet Catullus as 'the best of times'".
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1893/christmas-through-the-ages/

"The early Christian community distinguished between the identification of the date of Jesus’ birth and the liturgical celebration of that event. The actual observance of the day of Jesus’ birth was long in coming. In particular, during the first two centuries of Christianity there was strong opposition to recognizing birthdays of martyrs or, for that matter, of Jesus. Numerous Church Fathers offered sarcastic comments about the pagan custom of celebrating birthdays when, in fact, saints and martyrs should be honoured on the days of their martyrdom—their true “birthdays,” from the church’s perspective.

The precise origin of assigning December 25 as the birth date of Jesus is unclear. The New Testament provides no clues in this regard. December 25 was first identified as the date of Jesus’ birth by Sextus Julius Africanus in 221 and later became the universally accepted date. One widespread explanation of the origin of this date is that December 25 was the Christianizing of the dies solis invicti nati (“day of the birth of the unconquered sun”), a popular holiday in the Roman Empire that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the sun, the casting away of winter and the heralding of the rebirth of spring and summer. "
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Christmas

"By the 1850s, the newfound tradition of Christmas was making its way to the South via the railroads and increased cross-country communication. These innovations helped disseminate ideas and customs to previously isolated areas of the country. Just a decade later, the Civil War further helped solidify the status of Christmas as a national holiday.

Around the end of the Civil War, Christmas also began to reemerge as a religious holiday. The first indication of this reappearance occurred in Sunday Schools during the 1860s and 1870s. During this time, the American Sunday School Society began integrating Christmas programs into their Sunday School lessons. According to Cynthia Hart, John Grossman, and Priscilla Dunhill, the clergy had mixed feelings about these curricular materials, but became convinced that the teaching of the Nativity was a great learning tool for the children, as well as a way to boost attendance in churches.

Although religion began to play an important part in the Christmas celebration, the establishment of what became known as the Victorian Christmas is attributed to Charles Dickens."
https://www.encyclopedia.com/philosophy-and-religion/christianity/christianity-general/christmas
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#2
Pagan and man-made with the help of "other gods".
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,618
810
113
#3
"Several of the traditions today strongly associated with Christmas have a very long history indeed, even pre-dating the Christmas celebration itself.
But in the final analysus, JUST ANOTHER TRADITION - a re-purposing of the Saturnalia festivities.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#4
From God: The Key is to understand that the Gospel of Luke's description of Zechariah ministering in the Temple means that it was Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement. Luk 1:21 "Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Zechariah and wondering why he stayed so long in the temple. 22 When he came out, he could not speak to them. They realized he had seen a vision in the temple, for he kept making signs to them but remained unable to speak."

Now, Yom Kippur is typically in late September, and was so in 3 B.C. That means John the Baptist was conceived in late September. Church Tradition, as related here in an Orthodox Christian site, both Eastern and Western, agrees with this as it gives Sept 23 as the date of John the Baptist's conception and June 24th as his birth. Why does that matter? Well, because according to the same Gospel of Luke, Christ was conceived, and thus born, 6 months after John the Baptist. That fits the dates of March 25th for Christ's Conception/the Annunciation and Christ's Birth around December 25th.

https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2014/09/was-zechariah-father-of-john-baptist.html

This is how Saint John Chrysostom, an Eastern Church Father, calculated the date of Christmas in the 4th Century.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#5
See this also for more: "...
First Point: John the Baptist was conceived around late September of 3 B.C. near the Day of Atonement.
A Hebrew calendar shows that the Day of Atonement (also called Yom Kippur) was on Sep. 19, 3 B.C. It is the contention of this article that the Baptist was conceived around this time, when [Zechariah] was ministering in the Temple. In other words, the story of our salvation began on the ancient Day of Atonement commanded by God, which is fitting. It is here that the Gospel events recorded by St. Luke in chapter 1 really begin to take off.
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Luk 1:5 “There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named [Zechariah], of the course of Abia; and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth.”
As Dr. Marshall explains, a course of Abia occurs in September, and there is evidence in this passage to suggest that the time is around the Day of Atonement, when the high priest goes into the holy place, as we read in Ex. 30:10, Lev. 16:3, Heb. 9:7, etc.

https://onepeterfive.com/dates-years-birth-death-christ/
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#6
Note the date of this Early Church Testimony:

"Saint Hippolytus (170–240 A.D.) wrote: “The First Advent of our Lord in the flesh occurred when He was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, a Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, which is five thousand and five hundred years from Adam.”

This is way before the supposed borrowing from paganism. There is no record of pagans celebrating Dec. 25 before 354 A.D.

Edit: Btw, agree with this also from the OP: "December 25 was first identified as the date of Jesus’ birth by Sextus Julius Africanus in 221 and later became the universally accepted date."

Africanus is another I forgot to mention. But again note the date. 221 A.D. Way before 354 A.D.

And about the solstice, what does God's Creation belong to pagans or something? No, right, it belongs to God, and God's Messiah, Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ chose to be born around the Solstice, that's His Choice. Also, Hannukah is on Kislev (roughly December) 25, and a case can be made that Christmas is the fulfilment of Hannukah.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#7
 

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2022
688
435
63
#8
"Several of the traditions today strongly associated with Christmas have a very long history indeed, even pre-dating the Christmas celebration itself. Early Christianity sought to distance itself from pagan practices and so later Roman emperors closed down ancient sacred sites, prohibited rituals, and ended sporting games that had once honoured pagan gods. However, changing the habits of ordinary people was a different matter. The pagan festival of Saturnalia had been particularly popular, and its traditions that had endured for a millennium were, in many cases, simply transferred to the new festival of Christmas.

Saturnalia was a week-long Roman festival held between the 17th and 23rd of December that honoured the agricultural god Saturn, nicely encompassing the winter solstice, another event of significance in the pagan calendar. The fact that this was the merriest of all Roman holidays probably derived from Saturn's role as a ruler when the world was basking in a golden age of happiness and prosperity. The festival, which dates back to the 5th century BCE, was described by the 1st-century BCE Roman poet Catullus as 'the best of times'".
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1893/christmas-through-the-ages/

"The early Christian community distinguished between the identification of the date of Jesus’ birth and the liturgical celebration of that event. The actual observance of the day of Jesus’ birth was long in coming. In particular, during the first two centuries of Christianity there was strong opposition to recognizing birthdays of martyrs or, for that matter, of Jesus. Numerous Church Fathers offered sarcastic comments about the pagan custom of celebrating birthdays when, in fact, saints and martyrs should be honoured on the days of their martyrdom—their true “birthdays,” from the church’s perspective.

The precise origin of assigning December 25 as the birth date of Jesus is unclear. The New Testament provides no clues in this regard. December 25 was first identified as the date of Jesus’ birth by Sextus Julius Africanus in 221 and later became the universally accepted date. One widespread explanation of the origin of this date is that December 25 was the Christianizing of the dies solis invicti nati (“day of the birth of the unconquered sun”), a popular holiday in the Roman Empire that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the sun, the casting away of winter and the heralding of the rebirth of spring and summer. "
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Christmas

"By the 1850s, the newfound tradition of Christmas was making its way to the South via the railroads and increased cross-country communication. These innovations helped disseminate ideas and customs to previously isolated areas of the country. Just a decade later, the Civil War further helped solidify the status of Christmas as a national holiday.

Around the end of the Civil War, Christmas also began to reemerge as a religious holiday. The first indication of this reappearance occurred in Sunday Schools during the 1860s and 1870s. During this time, the American Sunday School Society began integrating Christmas programs into their Sunday School lessons. According to Cynthia Hart, John Grossman, and Priscilla Dunhill, the clergy had mixed feelings about these curricular materials, but became convinced that the teaching of the Nativity was a great learning tool for the children, as well as a way to boost attendance in churches.

Although religion began to play an important part in the Christmas celebration, the establishment of what became known as the Victorian Christmas is attributed to Charles Dickens."
https://www.encyclopedia.com/philosophy-and-religion/christianity/christianity-general/christmas
Amen. Thank you for sharing this. The LORD showed me this in the first year I was walking with Him. I did not understand completely but, I did not have peace. I learned more the next year to articulate Why I didn't have peace and every year since He has continued to teach me the Truth that leads me out of the errors, lies, and confusion.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#9
Is Christ-mass Biblical or Pagan? Man-made or from God?
The real question should be "Do Christians use Christmas to get pagans to think about Christ?"

Why don't we look at the positive aspect of Christmas (which has "Christ" at the front)? This is a great time to send out the Gospel to the unbelieving world. But no. We have to talk about the pagan origins of Yuletide. Which means that Christians actually lose their focus on Christ let alone cause others to focus on Him. Then blame the world for forgetting Christ in Christmas.

The other question is "Did God the Father Himself celebrate the birth of Jesus?" and the Gospels show that in fact He did. He sent the wise men with gifts to worship the King of the Jews after He sent angels to the shepherds to make them go to the manger and then announce the Glad Tidings of the birth of the Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,432
3,682
113
#10
Is Christ-mass Biblical or Pagan? Man-made or from God?
Depends on who you ask.

To me it's not Biblical at all; this part is pretty easy. It's a manmade tradition that incorporates many pagan and worldly elements. Christians who support Christ Mass claim they only observe it as the Lord's birthday but their actions belie this notion: They have Christ Mass trees in their houses and church buildings; teach their kids to believe in Santa; even wear Santa hats in church, as I observed one preacher doing as he preached.

I've noticed that many Christians who observe and promote Christ Mass have something to gain from it: They're trying to win their children's love, or avoid their disdain; they're trying to capture a feeling that their everyday walk with the Lord seems to be lacking; or, most unfortunate of all, they have a financial incentive. Everyone know that Christ Mass is big business, not only for the world, but for nonprofits and churches.

"These new residents worshiped the LORD, but they also appointed from among themselves all sorts of people as priests to offer sacrifices at their places of worship. And though they worshiped the LORD, they continued to follow their own gods according to the religious customs of the nations from which they came. And this is still going on today. They continue to follow their former practices instead of truly worshiping the LORD and obeying the decrees, regulations, instructions, and commands he gave the descendants of Jacob, whose name he changed to Israel.
For the LORD had made a covenant with the descendants of Jacob and commanded them: 'Do not worship any other gods or bow before them or serve them or offer sacrifices to them. But worship only the LORD, who brought you out of Egypt with great strength and a powerful arm. Bow down to him alone, and offer sacrifices only to him. Be careful at all times to obey the decrees, regulations, instructions, and commands that he wrote for you. You must not worship other gods. Do not forget the covenant I made with you, and do not worship other gods. You must worship only the LORD your God. He is the one who will rescue you from all your enemies.'
But the people would not listen and continued to follow their former practices. So while these new residents worshiped the LORD, they also worshiped their idols. And to this day their descendants do the same." 2 Kings 17:32-41​
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
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India
#11
How about the Spiritual Incentive of roughly a month where the entire Christian World and sometimes even the Secular World speaks of and sings of Jesus Christ and His Birth in the Manger? What a wonderful time, in Christmas Season when we celebrate December, to pray, evangelize, be edified, read the Gospel Passages of His Birth (below), and remind ourselves annually (as Israel kept her own annual feasts) of wondrous events in the history of Salvation, such as the Incarnation of Almighty God in the Person of Jesus Christ Our Lord. Again, it is very clear the Bible gave it importance, as Nehemiah and others said: (1) the Magi worship Jesus, as we read in the Gospel of Matthew. (2) The Angels announce His Birth, Glory to God, and Peace to men and women of good will, as we read in the Gospel of Luke. And (3) The Shepherds return, after glorifying and praising the Lord for seeing Baby Jesus. Cribs with Baby Jesus, the Angels, Shepherds and Wise Men are better than Christmas Trees imo, though there is nothing wrong with having a Christmas Tree with a Christmas Star on top of it? Did some pagan god create trees and stars by any chance. Christ created them, God speaks favorably of the Tree of Life in the Bible, and a Star pointed out His Birth. Nothing harmful or wrong about Trees or Stars.

"Gospel of Luke, Chapter II: The Birth of Jesus:

"The Birth of Jesus
1In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. 2(This was the first census that took place while a Quirinius was governor of Syria.) 3And everyone went to their own town to register.
4So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. 5He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. 6While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born, 7and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them.
8And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
13Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,
14“Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”
15When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”
16So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby, who was lying in the manger. 17When they had seen him, they spread the word concerning what had been told them about this child, 18and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds said to them. 19But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart. 20The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, which were just as they had been told.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#12
Also, there was no such person as a fat commercialized version of a "Santa Claus". There was however a Fourth Century Christian Bishop named Saint Nicholas, who was an ascetic, not fat, who was a staunch defender of the Divinity of Christ in the Council of Nicea, and who was world-renowned for his charitable works including giving gifts to the Poor, and saving a family with 3 daughters from falling into prostitution. He first did it secretly, as Christ said, but then he was discovered.

Also, as Christ said, when we give parties and feasts, why not give them to the Poor, that we may be Repaid at the Resurrection of the Just, since they cannot repay us?

Luk 14: When you give a Feast, give it to the Poor, not the Rich:

When you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind; and you will be blessed, because they are not able to pay you back. God will repay you on the day the good people rise from death.”

On Saint Nicholas, who did just that. He was also highly learned in the Holy Scriptures and is honored especially in Orthodox Christian Countries, not as a "fat man", but as a Christian Ascetic Bishop who loved Christ and the Poor: "
Saint Nicholas the Wonderworker, Archbishop of Myra in Lycia
Commemorated on December 6

Troparion & Kontakion
Saint Nicholas, the Wonderworker, Archbishop of Myra in Lycia is famed as a great saint pleasing unto God. He was born in the city of Patara in the region of Lycia (on the south coast of the Asia Minor peninsula), and was the only son of pious parents Theophanes and Nonna, who had vowed to dedicate him to God.
As the fruit of the prayer of his childless parents, the infant Nicholas from the very day of his birth revealed to people the light of his future glory as a wonderworker. His mother, Nonna, after giving birth was immediately healed from illness. The newborn infant, while still in the baptismal font, stood on his feet three hours, without support from anyone, thereby honoring the Most Holy Trinity. Saint Nicholas from his infancy began a life of fasting, and on Wednesdays and Fridays he would not accept milk from his mother until after his parents had finished their evening prayers.
From his childhood Nicholas thrived on the study of Divine Scripture; by day he would not leave church, and by night he prayed and read books, making himself a worthy dwelling place for the Holy Spirit. Bishop Nicholas of Patara rejoiced at the spiritual success and deep piety of his nephew. He ordained him a reader, and then elevated Nicholas to the priesthood, making him his assistant and entrusting him to instruct the flock.
In serving the Lord the youth was fervent of spirit, and in his proficiency with questions of faith he was like an Elder, who aroused the wonder and deep respect of believers. Constantly at work and vivacious, in unceasing prayer, the priest Nicholas displayed great kind-heartedness towards the flock, and towards the afflicted who came to him for help, and he distributed all his inheritance to the poor.
There was a certain formerly rich inhabitant of Patara, whom Saint Nicholas saved from great sin. The man had three grown daughters, and in desperation he planned to sell their bodies so they would have money for food. The saint, learning of the man’s poverty and of his wicked intention, secretly visited him one night and threw a sack of gold through the window. With the money the man arranged an honorable marriage for his daughter. Saint Nicholas also provided gold for the other daughters, thereby saving the family from falling into spiritual destruction. In bestowing charity, Saint Nicholas always strove to do this secretly and to conceal his good deeds ..."

From: https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/20...-the-wonderworker-archbishop-of-myra-in-lycia