What Scriptures say Jesus and the Father are on the same level?
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“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Colossians 2:9
On the same level ? So like this ?
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:22-24
That’s a pretty good section for that I’d say meaning even if we didn’t think Jesus is actually God the father we still are taught to honor and obey him as God the father and he said of we don’t honor him we aren’t honoring the father.
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 9:6 KJV
Jesus The son who is born is the fullness of God in one. The mighty God , the everlasting father , the prince of peace and counselor in one name Jesus the Christ and son of God our lord.
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7 KJV
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth “
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1, 9-10, 14 KJV
It’s him though God became one of us To intercede for us he made himself low like us and subjected himself to flesh and blood and overcame all things we face and then returned having become our high priest and intercessor forever
when he was finished saving us
“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
John 17:5 KJV
you’ll notice now after he died and rose and returned to his glory in the father now you see this when he comes back to them
“Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
John 20:27-29 KJV
What I’m saying is Jesus created all things and dwelt in heaven then looked upon man and saw there was no worthy intercessor and so he himself declared he would come In The flesh and save mankind because he would not share his glory he would do it himself becoming e perfect man and priest and intercessor and sacrifice in one
He was , and then he came into the earth to save us , returned to heaven and now will one day come back for his people it’s the same God the Holy Ghost is his spirit he is the father and son and holy ghost not only the father son or holt ghost but where they all are in one
thats Jesus
Colossians 2:9
On the same level ? So like this ?
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:22-24
That’s a pretty good section for that I’d say meaning even if we didn’t think Jesus is actually God the father we still are taught to honor and obey him as God the father and he said of we don’t honor him we aren’t honoring the father.
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 9:6 KJV
Jesus The son who is born is the fullness of God in one. The mighty God , the everlasting father , the prince of peace and counselor in one name Jesus the Christ and son of God our lord.
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7 KJV
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth “
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1, 9-10, 14 KJV
It’s him though God became one of us To intercede for us he made himself low like us and subjected himself to flesh and blood and overcame all things we face and then returned having become our high priest and intercessor forever
when he was finished saving us
“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
John 17:5 KJV
you’ll notice now after he died and rose and returned to his glory in the father now you see this when he comes back to them
“Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
John 20:27-29 KJV
What I’m saying is Jesus created all things and dwelt in heaven then looked upon man and saw there was no worthy intercessor and so he himself declared he would come In The flesh and save mankind because he would not share his glory he would do it himself becoming e perfect man and priest and intercessor and sacrifice in one
He was , and then he came into the earth to save us , returned to heaven and now will one day come back for his people it’s the same God the Holy Ghost is his spirit he is the father and son and holy ghost not only the father son or holt ghost but where they all are in one
thats Jesus
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Thank you for retrieving this verse. I saw it coming and would like to take a look at it, as Luke 3:16, among others provides us with John saying that Jesus is greater than him. However, separate wording is used in each case. John uses the word "megas" while Luke uses the word "ischuroteros" for 'greater.' There is a difference.
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"The same level" (humanistic thinking) is not the same as saying that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet the Father is "Head" or authority over Christ (1 Cor 11:3).
There is a ranking of authority within the Godhead, yet the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ. How does one explain that? Well no one should even try. At the same time, following the resurrection, all power and authority has been handed to the Son. And eventually the Son will hand everything back to the Father so that God will be "all in all". This is "the Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ", and no mere mortal may delve too deeply into it without going into error.
There is a ranking of authority within the Godhead, yet the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ. How does one explain that? Well no one should even try. At the same time, following the resurrection, all power and authority has been handed to the Son. And eventually the Son will hand everything back to the Father so that God will be "all in all". This is "the Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ", and no mere mortal may delve too deeply into it without going into error.
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Between Jesus' incarnation and ascension? Yes.
Jesus now Has all the fully God attributes. I mean.. He sent the Comforter. All things consist in Him.
To make things even more interesting.. so Jesus sent the Comforter.. yet who is it that is 'in the midst' of two or three gathered believers.. getting together to resolve sin issues? Jesus. See Matthew 18.
So yeah.. im saying.. while in the flesh.. Jesus was doing something like 'self limiting'. He is no longer in that state. He has ascended and is in His full glory. One with the Father. Co-equal. Co-eternal. Co-existing.
One triune God with the Father and Holy Spirit.
Jesus now Has all the fully God attributes. I mean.. He sent the Comforter. All things consist in Him.
To make things even more interesting.. so Jesus sent the Comforter.. yet who is it that is 'in the midst' of two or three gathered believers.. getting together to resolve sin issues? Jesus. See Matthew 18.
So yeah.. im saying.. while in the flesh.. Jesus was doing something like 'self limiting'. He is no longer in that state. He has ascended and is in His full glory. One with the Father. Co-equal. Co-eternal. Co-existing.
One triune God with the Father and Holy Spirit.
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Glad you are anticipating some elements of this discussion.
ἰσχυρός (ischuroteros) is more indicative of strength
μέγας (megas) is more indicative of superiority
This is what the most prominent lexicons, scholars, and translations argue....as well as how these words are used elsewhere in the NT.
Jesus is positionally lower than the Father. The Father gives authority, power, dominion, etc to the Son. The Son submits to the Father. etc. They are equal in essence and different in position. They have different roles.
ἰσχυρός (ischuroteros) is more indicative of strength
μέγας (megas) is more indicative of superiority
This is what the most prominent lexicons, scholars, and translations argue....as well as how these words are used elsewhere in the NT.
Jesus is positionally lower than the Father. The Father gives authority, power, dominion, etc to the Son. The Son submits to the Father. etc. They are equal in essence and different in position. They have different roles.
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Not in position..
But still fully God in nature. He did things that were fully God powers. Turning water into wine? That's modifying h2o into h20 plus fermented fruit. By His own power. Without instruments.
He could forgive sin of those who hadn't directly personally offended Him.
He was Head of the disciples.. but not a disciple.
He considered John to be the greatest in the kingdom.. yet he put Himself above John. Thomas called him Lord and God.. and Jesus accepted that. He was doing this by the 'hand of the Father'.. to the Jews.. when someone does something as an agent for another.. they are 'as the man themselves'. The agent becomes equal to the originator. So.. this where the blaphemy accusation comes in. Jesus is claiming equality with God.
So equal. But limiting Himself in the flesh. Emptying Himself voluntarily.
But still fully God in nature. He did things that were fully God powers. Turning water into wine? That's modifying h2o into h20 plus fermented fruit. By His own power. Without instruments.
He could forgive sin of those who hadn't directly personally offended Him.
He was Head of the disciples.. but not a disciple.
He considered John to be the greatest in the kingdom.. yet he put Himself above John. Thomas called him Lord and God.. and Jesus accepted that. He was doing this by the 'hand of the Father'.. to the Jews.. when someone does something as an agent for another.. they are 'as the man themselves'. The agent becomes equal to the originator. So.. this where the blaphemy accusation comes in. Jesus is claiming equality with God.
So equal. But limiting Himself in the flesh. Emptying Himself voluntarily.
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Philippians 2
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
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