"Faith + Works =...

Are we justified by our works as James states?

Is it possible that James is written to the twelve tribes during the time of Jacob’s trouble?

Do these good works justify the believer? Only a KJV can clear this up. Galatians 2:16.

No. By Grace thru faith in Jesus. OT and NT.

Different ways of service OT and NT.. not a different way of salvation.

Jesus was pre existent before being as Immanuel.. why would he have a different way of salvation?

OT saints believed and were made righteous before doing their just works.

James is not a doctrinal book to the body of Christ, but to the twelve tribes.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

In context this verse is about a work being just in the sight of God from someone who already has faith

The verse is answering the earlier question in verse 14.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Luther didnt struggle with it. He struggled with putting it on paper. He wrote a book called law and Gospel. Where he lays it all out.

And it can. But the subject isn't getting eternal life.. it's acts of service pleasing to God

The context is answering the question asked in verse 14. Can faith alone without works save him? James gives his answer, by works a man is justified and not by faith only. Paul states to the body of Christ, faith alone saves, no works.

“Are we justified by our works as James states?”

thats not James point James is teaching us about true faith versus words.

james is explaining that Abraham was told this up front because he believed what God said to him

“And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

James point simply is that was calling Abraham righteous beforehand and then his faith was tested when was told to offer Isaac he obeyed and then God said this to him

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:1-2, 10-12, 15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is James point regarding faith

“But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?( that’s what God said to Abraham because you did this )

seeth thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ( he’s saying faith isn’t complete unless you actually act in faith )

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. ( he was called righteous first because he believed and then Tested just like we are )

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s making clear faith is not to just say I believe now in saved th end we still have to obey God that’s what faith is for

James Point is clear now huh ? Faith leads to doing the works or rather ing the deeds God has called us to do after we believe and are accepted

were justified because we accept the gospel and we are proven as we hear and grow and follow the gospel which we claim we believe

James point is faith doesn’t lead us to never do anything ,or become opposed to doing good works or even taking responsibility formoir deeds

it always leads to us obeying what God is telling us like Abraham did that is faith it isn’t just to say “I believe or I love everyone I’m righteous “

It’s to act like we believe and act in love towards others


Hes correcting the idea that “ if I have faith there’s no work to do “ Paul taught it also just takes him a chaoter to say what James teaches in a couple sentences

james is also teaching salvation by faith he’s just making it clear what faith is and isn’t

at his example as he leads in there consoder what point he’s making about faith

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?

can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

gos isn’t interested in lip service but people who will hear and believe him and walk the walk

a James is not writing to anyone but the church and the subject is the gospel and salvation by faith he’s just teaching it clearer and more abruptly than Paul

James is talking about this part

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

James is for mature Christian’s who e gotten past the “ I’m not able and capable and I’m not expected to do anything , faith means I don’t need to do anything he said to do “ part James is teaching what will make a believer grow and change and repent and live upright lives because th ta what grace does teaches us to become zealous of good works not opposed to them

We put Paul and James together and have a strong effective word that saves us

Paul states that the moment a man believes the gospel he is saved and justified, no works needed. Should a believer go n to good works? Absolutely! But salvation is not at stake, but rewards.


Look what Paul calls the carnal, immature, babes in Christ at Corinth…

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

How about:

Faith = Justification + Works

Works are what follow.

“Paul states that the moment a man believes the gospel he is saved and justified, no works needed. Should a believer go n to good works? Absolutely! But salvation is not at stake, but rewards.”

So Paul didn’t teach this ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:



but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your telling me “ that’s not about salvation ?” Eternal Life glory honor and peace on one hand those who do good

and indignation wrath tribulations d anguish on those who don’t obey and instead obey unrighteousness whether Jew or gentile

Both groups are saved ? Nah it’s about salvstion and taught by Paul it’s just that your only willing to accept scriptire if it supports hypergrace Paul warns us against that thinking because it’s a deception

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

( 1 option ) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;

( another option ) but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again eternal Life for those who sow to the spirit , you are t saved if you don’t have eternal Life right ?

but corruption for those who sow to the flesh ( corruption doesn’t inherit the kingdom right ?)

before you explain what the flesh and spirit means and how it’s not about what we do what did Paul say ?

If we live like this in these ways we don’t have any inheritance

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then these will inherit eternal life in his kingdom those who live after this way

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother we have to stop serving the devils Will that’s what sin and evil is and start serving Gods Will which is what e gospel teaches us

you say “Grace I’m saved “ tbisnosnwhatbotnlooks loke when you understand what “saved by grace entails , what it accomplishes how it saves sinners “ like this again this is Paul your apostle that you lift up so high above James

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭

Grace is part of the gospel you learn about repentance from evil and to live right before God and you learn to actually desire and want to do good for others and just good in general you become zealous to love others in deed and truth

The idea that Paul was meaning to teach Christian’s hypergrace without repentance and acting right and actually obeying God is ridiculous it’s what people like Joseph prince do to his doctrine to get rich deceiving people

airs why they always have to explain “
James isnt for Christian’s first john isnt for Christian’s , the thkngs jesus taught and said to do arent for Christian’s we won’t be judged according to our deeds good or bad like Jesus , Paul and John taught that’s not for Christian’s

every time a hypergracers sees a perfectly clear and true scriptire saying your deeds matter th y reject it because someone told them “ grace means nothing else applies your saved no matter what the end “

Its just a mechanism implanted by false teachers to avoid accepting the truth because then you’d know they were a false teacher

Paul didn’t teach us that what we do as Christian’s doesn’t matter not at all he actually taught more about our deeds than James or John or Peter combined it’s just hard to understand his writings because he writes so much about each subject so people grab one sentance and say this is all he ever said the end but nah he’s always explaining deep true and relevant points of faith repentance and righteousness leading to salvation

a if we don’t accept wha the in the Bible we’re never going to learn what’s in the Bible

a try reading a complete epistle of Paul like Ephesians or Galatians but don’t remove anything he’s saying then see if he’s making what we do very important and connecting it directly to salvstion and our inheritance on the kingdom of God and also eternal life like the few examples I’ve given you that you have already ignored and rejected in other posts clearly our deeds are what we are going to be judged by and yes hate about salvation v damnation and tribulation and anguish and gods wrath

Phinehas executing judgment did not cause his own eternal salvation.
Salvation is by grace, through faith, and not of works in all (past, present, & future) eras of redemptive history.

That is to save him from receiving judgment without mercy, having to do with temporal matters (not eternal salvation).

The already-saved and eternally-secure person must not disrespect the poor man in the assembly or fail to love his neighbor (vv 1-13), or he will receive temporal judgment without mercy. He has violated the law of liberty (vs 12). His faith alone can't save him from that; he must do the works.

Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit is limited to only using the KJV?
I mean, as I understand things, we can only understand Scripture when our
eyes are opened by the HS, right? (Not the KJV)

What is this word supposed to be?

I was stating that only the KJV contains the faith of Jesus Christ. In the new versions, the word of is changed to in. This denotes our faith instead of Christ's faith. Whose faith justifies the believer? The faith of Jesus Christ. Christ always did that was pleasing to his Father. Our faith waivers. Christ's faith never waivered.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Well, what are the examples in James of faith and works?

The examples James gives are of people-- in the OT, who had faith before doing the works. The works didn't lead to salvation.. they would have been converted before doing the works. It is the only way it can be.. because they are sinners and nothing would be acceptable to God without first being saved by grace.

Works actually converting someone is impossible. It's like 'putting perfume on a corpse'. Even in the OT.

OT saints doing works were doing them with faith they already had.

Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Issac. He was declared righteous in Genesis 15, but the fulfillment of God declaring him righteous came n Genesis 22.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.