Prophecy vs Speculation?

Some preachers claim that some OT verses, maybe in Ezekiel and/or Isaiah and/or ??? indicate that the U.S.A. or maybe Great Britain is referred to when the prophets writing speaks of Samaria at certain verses or possibly Manasseh at some verses or possibly Ephraim at some verses. Is there any merit to the claims some make in regard to this 'interpretation'. I have heard preachers claim, 'my interpretation' is an exegesis and the others are eisegesis or 'my interpretation' is based on Hermeneutics. What is the basis for any of these claims? Any ideas? Are any believable?

Unfortunately, many people approach the Bible having already established their basic beliefs and merely interpret the Bible in accordance their current understanding. We are all guilty of this from time to time. But we should be more careful to prayerfully consider what God is saying.
The best way to interpret scripture is with scripture. Using current events to interpret scripture has led some in each generation to believe and predict falsely.

No, there's no merit at all to British Israelism.

Agreed... despite "Jerusalem" being one of the most beautiful hymns, at least from a musical perspective.

From the commentaries available on the Bible Hub website I get the understanding from the small amount I have read, as there is a lot of commentary, that towards the last quarter of the 19th century some commentators seemed to really start more 'speculating' as opposed to earlier commentators trying to get an understanding of what the writers of Scripture were living. i.e. How the culture of the days they lived informed the writings.
But is it possible that certain books of the NT, Revelation or ?, opened a new 'vista' only to be understood once the advances which were 'given' man starting early 19th century? I say, given, since my feeling is mankind is devolving since the time of his creation. i.e. Intelligence of man in the Garden was actually superior compared with today. Even at time of Babel man was intellectually superior. This is what necessitated a confusing of language. Had this confusing not occurred we would have developed present technology earlier.

I don't agree with your final conclusion. But modern prophesy has definitely been influenced by the Schofield Study Bible.
Since his teachings are less than 200 years old, I think you will find better doctrine in the earlier writings.

No there is basis for making wild claims about Bible prophecy. All the Western nations are simply "the nations" and that implies Gentile nations. When God sees the Western nations as they are today, He sees nothing but foolishness, stupidity, and evil -- all by choice.

But when the Bible actually mentions specific nations, then those are specific. The nation of Israel is always central to all Bible prophecies, since God elected that nation for a specific purpose. But the Church does not replaced Israel.

That is "Scofield" not "Schofield". And as a matter of fact it is an excellent reference Bible (only the original 1917 edition which is still available).

Product Description
This easy-to-carry edition of the renowned Old Scofield Study Bible offers a wealth of study materials at a fantastic price. Featuring a traditional type setting cherished by many long-time Scofield readers, the Classic Edition, whose notes date from 1917, is the best cross-reference study Bible ever published. Among its many features are book introductions and outlines, unique subject chain reference system, comprehensive indexes, chronologies, a concordance and authoritative, full color Oxford Bible Maps.

Product Information
Title: Old Scofield Study Bible Classic Edition, KJV, Genuine Leather black
Format: Genuine Leather
Number of Pages: 1632
Vendor: Oxford University Press
Publication Date: 1999
Dimensions: 8.75 X 5.75 X 1.5 (inches)
Weight: 2 pounds 2 ounces
ISBN: 0195274628
ISBN-13: 9780195274622
References: Center Column
Text Layout: Double Column
Text Color: Red Letter
Text Size: 8 Point
Note Size: 8 Point
Thumb Index: No
Ribbon Marker: Yes
Spine: Sewn
Page Gilding: Gold
Stock No: WW274622
Imprintable: Yes

https://www.christianbook.com/scofi...h2SUgk_EAAYASAAEgJOMfD_BwE#CBD-PD-Description

at he. I ke speaks often in a perpetual and evolving nature what I mean is it speaks of world ruling kingdoms that rise and fall perpetually

a Egypt rose and fell opposing God , israel rose and fell opposing God , Babylon rose and fell opposing God media Persia rose and fell opposing God , Greece rose and fell opposing God , Rome rose and fell opposing God , and So on

more recently we don’t have scriptire identofying America or Britain or China ect but recent history shows us the perpetual nature of Hod kingdoms rise and rule for a time then oppose God , crumble and another rises up

its like a cycle as the worlds population grew and nations spread across the globe somsis this perpetual reaction to Gods doctrine one nations roses to power ones themselves to be wicked and falls by Gods word

certainly Britain’s dominance for a time is part of that cycle they fell and America rose up one nation under God based primarily on Christianity as a moral guide but now America just as everyone else has turned against God

approvong of every wickedness under heaven abortion , adultery , divorce , homosexuality and perversions galore , all Of which is opposed to Gods word and will

nations begin and then are corrupted and fall soon other will rise up being very obvious who it will be at this point

a nation that already declares its utter opposition to Christianity

after all this time when we look at the world god created for good and life mankind had corrupted and filled with evil and violence it’s throughout the world now all nations are in that perpetual event in this way Britain America China ect are all in scripture but not identified specifically just as another nation being given rule and eventually corrupting it d falling to another who rises up

only when the true king returns will the world be right

I appreciate your correction. I was typing quickly. And it may well be an excellent reference Bible. That doesn't negate what I posted. Few people who study prophesy are aware of it's source. They merely accept what they have been taught. In my opinion, there are far better explanations of prophesy in earlier writings.

Good points on your post brother. Wonder if any of these modern preachers of 'prophecy' have looked at it that way? I read somewhere that the name 'Byzantine' is difficult to determine when and where and who started that. And it seems that the 'Roman' empire split with or around the time of Constantine. And I need to find also the chart some came up with regarding a split in the early 'Church'. Quick wiki search>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East–West_Schism....Still earlier split than this???

“The nation of Israel is always central to all Bible prophecies, since God elected that nation for a specific purpose. But the Church does not replaced Israel.”

“I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name. I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face;

; Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:1-3, 6-7, 9, 11-17‬

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

anyone who receives the spirit of Christ believing the gospel are the elect and chosen nation of God . Anyone who rejects jesus and the gospel can’t receive his spirit and are not Gods chosen.

Bieng born of Israel’s flesh has no bearing on anyone’s salvstion or relationship with God and Jerusalem is not the place of worship any longer nor will it be

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

air doesn’t matter what nation we were born of it doesn’t help or hurt either way it’s the exact same for Jew and gentile there’s absolutely no difference in flesh it’s all corrupt Israeli and gentile flesh is not what matters

jesus flesh and blood is all that matters regarding flesh and blood

Israel cursed themselves even though God warned then all along and gave the em so long to repent they went on worshipping false gods and burning incense to them on high mountains sacrificing to them in Gods temple

When he sent the savior they then rejected and condemned him to death

awe have to look at the New Testament now we have a better promised land and it’s not in this world

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We have to do this now if we’re converted

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

theres no temple in Jerusalem anymore it’s been desolate for nearly 2000 years because Gods true Jerusalem is here that heavenly city he has prepared for us where Christ is on his throne

“but ye are come unto mount Zion, ( not sinai) and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to look into the heavenly things Jesus spoke forth to see Jerusalem that’s where it is until this day

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our flesh whether Jew or gentile doesn’t make us gods chosen people receiving the spirit of Jesus Christ makes us his chosen

i think some do and some don’t because some are genuine and some are false teachers

awe know this was promised to come we are warned the false teachings would repeat just as in Israel in the ot

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s how the devil works against the church telling us alterations and lies it’s the reason Gid preserved his true prophets in the Bible the true prophets like Ezekiel Isaiah zechariah Joel David ect they are what guide us until the spirit comes to us

The chosen prophets are sure and a light
But many read and don’t hear what they say and invent pre text for wrong interpretations. Based upon ore conceived notions we heard in church or from a false teacher somewhere along the line

a what happens is those false teachings force us to choose between Gods true words we learn from scripture and the fallacy we were taught when we didn’t know much of scripture it forces choice we choose a gods word and live but it requires us to “change our minds “ or in other words “repent “

False doctrine is the most dangerous thing for any Christian because it’s opposed to the truth of his living word the prophets in the Bible like Isaiah though they are unites inoortant to accept because it leads us to understand the gospels true meaning

“We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the most powerful witness of the new testaments truth is the law and prophets which foretold the coming of the messiah with his judgement and word of life and salvation

if we let the gospel interpret the prophets we find out the prophets were witnessing that Jesus was coming soon to do what he’s done for us and say what he said To us and to call all nations to himself

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The last line there is why we have the New Testament witnesses of the apostles and disciples of Jesus it’s why we have the four accounts of the gospel and epistles of his witnesses

The old was a prophecy of the gospel and New Testament and those old prophets are how we begin to have “ ears to hear and eyes to see “

we know there are false teachers and prophets for sure but we should also remember God still has witnesses on earth sharing his message so as we don’t throw everything we hear out but we can hear and test it against the word of prophecy And know if it’s true or false


We can answer every question we come up with if we start studying the prophets and realizing they were witnessing Christ and the gospel all along

“and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,

which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. …Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:20-21, 24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats what e prophets were always talking about when that clicks in a Christian’s mind , thier understanding will begin to grow exponentially as we start looking into thy e prophets writings knowing what they are actually about