USA HAS TOTALLY ACCEPTED 'GAY' MARRIAGE

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,824
1,616
113
#61
You're in a war whether you acknowledge it or not.
Laws must be based on something. If not righteousness, then something else will prevail.

IMO tolerating evil as long as we are permitted to sing at Church on Sundays isn't an adequate response to society's ills.
I think we should push for the right to bring up children in safety not only in the faith.
The law of the US is based upon exactly what its constitution allows: the will of the people. There is no provision for law based upon the Bible or God’s will. US law makes it very clear that the people are sovereign and they decide the direction of the state.

Now, in the Kingdom of God, are people sovereign? No. We have a King. It’s His way or no way. He doesn’t even ask for our opinion and certainly doesn’t wait for our votes to be tallied.

Does this prevent the church from being the light of the world? Certainly not! But what is our witness when 50% of “Biblical marriages” end in divorce? And what is our claim of morality when we support a serial philanderer for the highest office in the land? The church did this to itself: by winning at all costs, even willing to dispense with the light our Lord gave us to support ways of darkness. And now we think our problem is the way Democrats govern? Homosexual marriage? Please. The Lord is dealing with the plank in our own eye, for those who can receive it.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#64
I see.

I didn't know this had happened in The USA.
More to come?? Article says another case Dec. 5...?
In addition to the 1st Amendment issues, there is also a 13th Amendment issue.
You can't make me work for you, if I don't want to work for you, no matter how much you offer to pay me!


by Gary Perilloux
Post Date:
October 25, 2022

Cake baker celebrates religious rights win
Judge backs free speech rights in LGBT clash

On a Sunday evening in July, jazz saxophone notes fluttered over a California crowd. Soon, hands were locked in prayer on the downtown Bakersfield plaza. The pretrial vigil sought one aim—a healing resolution to a heated lawsuit over baker Cathy Miller’s choice not to create a wedding cake for Eileen and Mireya Rodriguez-Del Rio, a same-sex couple. Later, Miller explained the case is bigger than her Tastries Bakery. She said it was about Americans respecting the rule of law in a pluralistic society, one where Christian principles can coexist with LGBT rights.

“Tonight was [about] bringing the community together who wanted to pray for the entire case—both sides, the attorneys, the judge, the community, our nation, our state,” she says. “To pray for us and to pray for the LGBT community, so that we can follow what God has planned for this week.”

On Friday, three months after the July vigil and trial, Superior Court Judge J. Eric Bradshaw ruled Miller’s free speech rights allow her to decline to create a cake to celebrate something that violates her religious beliefs.

In August 2017, Miller politely declined the job and referred the couple to another baker. That referral provided free and equal access under California’s Unruh Civil Rights Act, Bradshaw ruled. Miller always sold bakery-case items to LGBT customers. She had employed people with a same-sex orientation. And she communicated design standards with no intent to discriminate against customers, the court found. “I just couldn’t participate in a [same-sex] marriage,” Miller said, “because that’s a sacred covenant, and it’s ordained by Christ.”

The Bakersfield case represents one of many pitting creative professionals against a tide of broader state anti-discrimination laws. Despite scoring a Supreme Court victory in a case similar to Miller’s, Colorado baker Jack Phillips is defending his Masterpiece Cakeshop a third time against discrimination claims. Other same-sex wedding clashes have involved a florist, a photographer, and a website designer, whose case will be heard Dec. 5 by the Supreme Court.

“A lot of the problem is these state statutes are drafted and interpreted in really, really broad ways,” said Brad Jacob, associate dean of the Regent University School of Law. “In theory, this kind of case should violate both free speech and free exercise [of religion]. You end up in this Catch-22 where the state is basically asking people to violate their own conscience.”

California’s Department of Fair Employment and Housing acted against Miller twice. During an administrative investigation in early 2018, the agency sought a court order compelling Miller to serve the same-sex couple. That effort failed, and the state did not file an appeal in time. But California’s 5th District Court of Appeals permitted the state agency to pursue the matter anew as a civil lawsuit.

The state agency, recently renamed the California Civil Rights Department, did not respond to questions about its intent to appeal. Neither did Patricia Ziegler-Lopez, an attorney who has represented the Rodriguez-Del Rio couple.

Charles LiMandri represents at Miller in the case as special counsel to the Thomas More Society and a partner in LiMandri & Jonna LLP. Both the free speech merits of Miller’s case and attorney’s fees she’ll be awarded—estimated in the mid-six-figure range—may discourage California from appealing. LiMandri & Jonna were part of a five-firm legal team that secured nearly $3 million in state-paid attorney’s fees after successfully arguing to reopen California churches during the COVID-19 pandemic.


“If they’re smart, they may decide to just let this case stay at the trial court level, where it doesn’t present binding legal authority—just persuasive,” LiMandri said. “What matters of course to the client is we won and she’s not going to be facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in attorney’s fees.”

Jacob and LiMandri concur that creative professionals will continue facing a higher hurdle to free religious exercise arguments than free speech. Yet recent cases show a Supreme Court looking more closely at how history and tradition inform the Constitution, and that bodes well for Lorie Smith’s upcoming website designer case, 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis.

“If they apply the same reasoning they did most recently in Dobbs and Kennedy … I think there’s a good chance we’re going to see in 303 Creative that they’ll come down a similar way, at least insofar as saying it’s protected speech,” LiMandri said.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,724
113
#65
Lucy, you say, "I think we should push for the right to bring up children in safety not only in the faith."

Unfortunately, parents are sitting by idly/pasively while their children are being indoctrinated/brainwashed with the LGBT agenda in the public classrooms.

They are after the hearts, minds, and souls of the children. Unfortunately souls will be lost. If there's any way you can afford to send your children to Christian schools do so! The public schools are teaching an anti-Christian agenda.
I'm not in The US but it is much the same in my country. My sister home-schooled her 2 children successfully.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#66
The rainbow ideology..
I consider How corrupt the earth was during the time of the flood.

A reset then leading unto the coming of the Lord.. then unto the Harvest.

The Lord coming into the world to redeem and save mankind.

There is nothing new under the sun.. the world becomes more corrupt in rebellion.

You are witnessing the outcome of the rebellion.

Anyone not going along with the world is evil.. hateful..

When good is evil, and evil good.

Abiding in this world and watching people believe anything goes in the name of being happy.. No Resistance. Is difficult.

Hate no one.. accept freewill of others but it is getting worse before the Harvest.

There is no saving the planet, uniting mankind according to rainbow ideologies.

Be not deceived, the serpent knows time is short.

Hated for believing GOD over man is a medal of honour.

The honour being GOD’s!

The Light shines brighter in the darkness.
GOD fill our lamps with oil to resist and withstand.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,259
1,046
113
#67
And what is our claim of morality when we support a serial philanderer for the highest office in the land?
God made someone he knew would murder and commit adultery into a King. Then he let him stay King after he slept with another man's wife... the wife of a man fighting for his kingdom... and then had that guy subversively murdered by using a deceptive military command.
David may as well have stabbed Jesus himself in the back- but God made him King; but I doubt you're gonna dispute God's claim to morality.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,824
1,616
113
#68
God made someone he knew would murder and commit adultery into a King. Then he let him stay King after he slept with another man's wife... the wife of a man fighting for his kingdom... and then had that guy subversively murdered by using a deceptive military command.
David may as well have stabbed Jesus himself in the back- but God made him King; but I doubt you're gonna dispute God's claim to morality.

So you voted for a serial philanderer then? Wow. Such mental gymnastics to assuage guilt!

2 Samuel 12:13 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.”

Our callings are irrefutable, as was David's. And David knew he had sinned. Whereas Trump "never asks for forgiveness because he doesn't have to".

I have no doubt God raised up Trump to show the depth of corruption of the church. He, of course, succeeded. Those who continue to support Trump and his kind are delusional. But this was also of God: the great delusion of the last days.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,849
2,272
113
#69
A shift? How? While the US law allows all kinds of filth, the kingdom of God never allows such things. The US is not the kingdom of God.
You are kinda all over the place. I never stated the US was the kingdom of God.

The kingdom is not some future state, it is here and now in the people who are born again believers. The kingdom is the dominion of Christ over the earth which he obtained at his ascension

We are called to be salt and light, you seem to want to abdicate our role here on earth.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,849
2,272
113
#70
So you voted for a serial philanderer then? Wow. Such mental gymnastics to assuage guilt!

2 Samuel 12:13 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.”

Our callings are irrefutable, as was David's. And David knew he had sinned. Whereas Trump "never asks for forgiveness because he doesn't have to".

I have no doubt God raised up Trump to show the depth of corruption of the church. He, of course, succeeded. Those who continue to support Trump and his kind are delusional. But this was also of God: the great delusion of the last days.
Tell me which president was virtuous?
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,824
1,616
113
#71
Tell me which president was virtuous?
Good point. How much unrighteousness should we support?

You are kinda all over the place. I never stated the US was the kingdom of God.

The kingdom is not some future state, it is here and now in the people who are born again believers. The kingdom is the dominion of Christ over the earth which he obtained at his ascension

We are called to be salt and light, you seem to want to abdicate our role here on earth.
How does not voting for the basest of men equate to abdicating our role as salt and light?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,102
6,580
113
62
#72
Good point. How much unrighteousness should we support?



How does not voting for the basest of men equate to abdicating our role as salt and light?
Sometimes the choice is between good and best. More often these days it is between bad and worse. Not choosing bad generally leads to worse.
If not voting seems good to you, consider the hardship that others might endure.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#73
You're in a war whether you acknowledge it or not.
Laws must be based on something. If not righteousness, then something else will prevail.

IMO tolerating evil as long as we are permitted to sing at Church on Sundays isn't an adequate response to society's ills.
I think we should push for the right to bring up children in safety not only in the faith.
those rights will only be won by prayer, it is a war, a spiritual war. we got to pull down those strongholds . To seek to achieve victory through the legislature was always the lazy way, it was always doomed to failure. As in the famous monkey trial of the 50s.

I would not say the church is spiritually lazy, but christians do not know WHO they are and WHAT they have.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#74
I don't think you, or many here that think the Body of believers shouldn't get involved on this issue, and this Bill that is VERY soon going to be codified into Law, understand what it means.

what this Law will do is force businesses, organizations, AND CHURCHES, to fully accept all aspects of homosexual, and soon polygamous, unions, at the threat of severe penalties such as losing tax exempt status.

What do you think they hired the 77,000 new, ARMED IRS agents for?

Please understand how this differs with a "well it's the world, so it doesn't affect the Church at all" attitude.

Several state lawmakers have already put forth legislation that if a parent doesn't recognize a child's desired transgender, or not accept their homosexuality, they can be forcibly removed from the house.

So how is a Christian going to be free to "bring up a child in faith" under these Laws?
Brother you've been fighting, tooth and nail you been fighting. trouble is the church is fighting the WRONG enemy on the WRONG front with the WRONG weaponry and the WRONG tactics.

This battle is EASY PEASY for the Lord God Almighty. but it is the same as the famous monkey trial of the 50s and all the other moral issues. Christians will not seek God, they run to the legislature.

Christians must learn spiritual warfare. .... but they are not about to are they?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#75
Christians are already being arrested for refusing to make wedding cakes for gay weddings, perform gay marriage ceremonies etc. its only going to get worse
Yes it happened in Northern Ireland too, homos deliberately target Christian businesses and hotels and bookshops. But you know what? when those men and women of Ulster were found guilty they got down to seek the Lord about it. They rolled up their spiritual sleeves and they prayed.

Their conviction was overturned.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,287
3,607
113
#76
We must pray, but we must also be willing to accept God's answer. There's nothing in God's word that promises we have a bright future ahead of us; no golden age to usher in the Lord's return. Only apostasy and persecution, unfortunately.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#77
Laws are based on morality.
so they are, whatever the prevailing moral ethics are. The sad fact is that bible believing Christians are now a minority.

This battle can only be won by prayer ... and soul winning.

How far down the church has fallen alas. We will hope in God.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#78
A great majority of Americans favor 'Gay Marriage'. The US Congress, Supreme Court, and the President are leading the charge to 'codify' gay marriage. They want to teach this as morally acceptable, to children in schools.

Unfortunately, this puts Christians in a spot. Jesus clearly stated that 'Marriage' is between a man and a woman."

So, Christians will have to make their choice, as the ways of the USA and Jesus are directly opposed to one another.

Personally, I'll stick with what Jesus teaches.
The CHURCH is the problem.

The church has to change, not only what she thinks but the very way she thinks.

Homosexuals are not the enemy, only the devil is the enemy. God is not angry with homosexuals in this grace epoch.
We have to look upon homos as victims, a people enslaved. Let's set about setting them free.

The victory must be won in the spirit world first. Not in the legislature.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,581
9,099
113
#79
Brother you've been fighting, tooth and nail you been fighting. trouble is the church is fighting the WRONG enemy on the WRONG front with the WRONG weaponry and the WRONG tactics.

This battle is EASY PEASY for the Lord God Almighty. but it is the same as the famous monkey trial of the 50s and all the other moral issues. Christians will not seek God, they run to the legislature.

Christians must learn spiritual warfare. .... but they are not about to are they?
I think even slightly mature Christians fully understand that the Lord is ultimately in control, and that He is the ultimate power.
The only thing we should fight for is the right to follow Jesus and to bring up children in the faith.
THAT is what you said. I fully agree. Christians fled the persecution in Europe to go to America. For 250 yrs we have been the bastion of freedom in the world. People come here in cardboard box boats, and bath tubs, leave everything they had, family, country, roots and all.

THERE'S NOWHERE ELSE TO GO. If we are not going to fight for our children, where they are literally threatening to take them away if we don't support their perversions, then what would we ever fight for again?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#80
I think even slightly mature Christians fully understand that the Lord is ultimately in control, and that He is the ultimate power.

THAT is what you said. I fully agree. Christians fled the persecution in Europe to go to America. For 250 yrs we have been the bastion of freedom in the world. People come here in cardboard box boats, and bath tubs, leave everything they had, family, country, roots and all.

THERE'S NOWHERE ELSE TO GO. If we are not going to fight for our children, where they are literally threatening to take them away if we don't support their perversions, then what would we ever fight for again?
I'm not saying don't fight, I'm saying fight the real enemy with the right weaponry. You may not realise it but you are on the wrong side of your historic analogy. You are seeking to enforce your morality upon everybody.

Your moral outlook is correct but still you cannot force it upon everybody by law. This is a spiritual battle.