Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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KostasLT

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HeIsHere said:
This means faith that is not being exercised/in operation after one is saved is not being put to good use for the benefit of society.

James was addressing his Jewish brethren in Christ.
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This is about the same thing with a different wording.

Can you see the difference between faith + works and faith followed by works? I can't
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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KostasLT said:
But God leaves us the freedom to pick if we want a future with or without Him. And this is a constant decision. We have to pick one of two every day, every hour and every second. Not just once.
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Yes, how about nano seconds, God forbid you die in the in-between time.

Must be a lot of self satisfaction in all this expending effort. :(
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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KostasLT said:
This is about the same thing with a different wording.

Can you see the difference between faith + works and faith followed by works? I can't
Click to expand...

We are saved by GRACE through faith (exercised in Jesus) and not of works, lest any man should boast.

James does not contradict Paul. Paul is talking about saving faith, James is talking about the faith after we are saved.
 
K

KostasLT

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HeIsHere said:
We are saved by GRACE through faith (exercised in Jesus) and not of works, lest any man should boast.

James does not contradict Paul. Paul is talking about saving faith, James is talking about the faith after we are saved.
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Both doctrines teach basically the same - faith saves but works are required.

So you agree with me
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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BreatheFocusBet said:
Can one be justified by faith alone without deeds?

James 2:24
As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.
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This is not spiritual saving justification, look at the context, it is before men. Your good deeds will justify/display your faith before men, just like Abraham.

James is teaching Jews who had been under the Law, they were not doing good works in their communities.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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KostasLT said:
Both doctrines teach basically the same - faith saves but works are required.

So you agree with me
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Nope, faith saves and no works required.

The gift is free and not a quid pro quo.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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KostasLT said:
So what is this if not works?
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I am not sure what you are asking?

Good deeds is the same as good works.

When we are in Christ we have ceased from dead works that could not save, once we are born again we should want to display our faith by our good works.
 
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KostasLT

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HeIsHere said:
I am not sure what you are asking?

Good deeds is the same as good works.

When we are in Christ we have ceased from dead works that could not save, once we are born again we should want to display our faith by our good works.
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So you agree with me that both faith and works should be present in a Christian.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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KostasLT said:
So you agree with me that both faith and works should be present in a Christian.
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Grace saves us through faith, works do not.

A person may or may not have works, the one thing we will have done is to believe on Christ Jesus like the thief on the cross, and He in turn will give the gift of eternal life.

I am not an adherent of Lordship salvation theology. I stick to the simplicity of the Gospel.
 
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BreatheFocusBet

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HeIsHere said:
This is not spiritual saving justification, look at the context, it is before men. Your good deeds will justify/display your faith before men, just like Abraham.

James is teaching Jews who had been under the Law, they were not doing good works in their communities.
Click to expand...
Then one who has faith, but has no deeds, can be saved by such a faith?

James 2:14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?


And such a faith is not worthless?

James 2:20
O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?
 
K

KostasLT

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HeIsHere said:
Grace saves us through faith, works do not.

A person may or may not have works, the one thing we will have done is to believe on Christ Jesus like the thief on the cross, and He in turn will give the gift of eternal life.

I am not an adherent of Lordship salvation theology. I stick to the simplicity of the Gospel.
Click to expand...
So you have switched your position.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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BreatheFocusBet said:
Then one who has faith, but has no deeds, can be saved by such a faith?

James 2:14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?


And such a faith is not worthless?

James 2:20
O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?
Click to expand...

It is really not a good idea to use sections in isolation, this is a full letter where James is building his thesis.

The over arching message of James is simple.....

Righteous action saves the life, extends the life, preserves the life of the born again believer her on earth.

Following the commands of God, being a doer of the Word (can I say yet: adding works to your faith?) will save a person from the deadly consequences of sin.

"Save" sometimes refers to the temporal not the eternal, this is the context of James.
 
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BreatheFocusBet

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HeIsHere said:
It is really not a good idea to use sections in isolation, this is a full letter where James is building his thesis.

The over arching message of James is simple.....

Righteous action saves the life, extends the life, preserves the life of the born again believer her on earth.

Following the commands of God, being a doer of the Word (can I say yet: adding works to your faith?) will save a person from the deadly consequences of sin.

"Save" sometimes refers to the temporal not the eternal, this is the context of James.
Click to expand...
What about faith alone being worthless? Is there any context to clarify that?

worthless ?
ἀργή (argē)
Adjective - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 692: Idle, lazy, thoughtless, unprofitable, injurious. (by implication) lazy, useless.

https://biblehub.com/strongs/james/2-20.htm
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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KostasLT said:
So you have switched your position.
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No, you are not reading me correctly maybe.

Works do not save...it is by grace through faith. Works have value in terms of one's witness, for sure, but they do not add to salvation.

One could discuss if the one act of saving faith is a work, but there is another thread for that topic.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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K

KostasLT

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HeIsHere said:
No, you are not reading me correctly maybe.

Works do not save...it is by grace through faith. Works have value in terms of one's witness, for sure, but they do not add to salvation.

One could discuss if the one act of saving faith is a work, but there is another thread for that topic.
Click to expand...
But faith without works is not faith. Works are part of the faith.

Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of God.
 
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