The theif on the cross misconceptions

If thier word contradict or attempt to explain away scripture there is nothing much else to say about it.

Once more, another thread failing to rightly divide the word of truth.

You do realize that the gift of the Holy Ghost happens consistent with baptism into Christ, right? Read Acts 2:38.

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

And, what EXACTLY is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or Spirit and who does it or did it pertain to in the scriptures? There too is a difference between the gift of the Spirit itself per Acts 2:38 and the gifts of the Spirit, those delineated in 1 Cor 12:8-10 which were miraculously manifested. And the baptism of the Holy Ghost that occurred on the day of Pentecost happened to and was meant for the apostles as was foretold and fulfilled thereby. That happening is not the norm and happened for a specific reason.

This is simply perhaps the single most incredible verse in the entire Bible . . . at least for me. It is so utterly profound, and for those who have physically experienced Ezekiel 36:25-27 . . . these incredible passages are that much more meaningful.

Here is the next verse . . . so critically important.

Ezekiel 36:27 NIV - "And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Right. There is just too much spiritual nonsense floating around these days.

Today there are multiple false gospels, and Christians need to know the true Gospel in order to refute and debunk the false gospels. Here are some of the false gospels you will see floating around:
1. The gospel according to TULIP
2. The Prosperity Gospel
3. The Baptismal Regeneration Gospel
4. The Sacramental Gospel
5 The Good Works Gospel
6. The Antinomian Gospel
7. The Hyper Grace Gospel
8. All kinds of Gnostic gospels
7. All kinds of New Age gospels

So what is the TRUE GOSPEL? Paul spells it out in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and Ephesians 1:13-16
1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how [1]that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And [2] that He was buried, and [3] that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:...
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

This corresponds to what Paul told the Philippian jailer in Acts 16:31: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, who is God manifest in the flesh, is the Gospel. Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and rose again from the dead for our justification, according to the Scriptures. And that all who genuinely repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are justified by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption + NOTHING.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of our salvation. For those who are trusting in works for salvation, it's time for them to repent and believe the gospel.

The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. (Acts 15:7-9; 20:24; 26:18; Romans 3:24-28; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..) The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. 1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.

Baptism is not a human work. It is a work of God via the Holy Spirit. That is clear by all the passages about baptism.

Water baptism and Spirit baptism are two separate baptisms (Matthew 3:11) and water baptism is a work of righteousness. (Matthew 3:13-15; Titus 3:5)

There is only one baptism.
Titus 3:5 clearly states the opposite.
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/tit.3.5.NKJV

Note the word "not, but, and the word and" NOT of works of righteousness, BUT according to his Grace through the washing of regeneration, AND renewing of the Holy Spirit.

This passage clearly removes baptism from. Works of righteousness.

The baptism of Jesus was to fulfill all righteousness. It was a work of Jesus by the Holy Spirit and God the Father. Jesus was already righteous. So that leaves the question of what righteousness? The answer is quite simple. Jesus was baptizes for our sake.

Imagine that a work of Jesus for our sake...like everything else he did in his ministry.

After all we have no righteousness to work.

There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37 for the word drink(s). The two elements found in the new birth (John 3:5) are living water and the Spirit (Who is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing/washing of regeneration).

Not at all because water baptism is not the washing of regeneration. Water baptism is the picture and Spirit baptism is the reality. Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, (literally, "of works which are done in righteousness" and this passage fully refutes the doctrine of meritorious works).

Christ's righteousness is imputed to believers. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

I didn't know that, thanks. This article Who Can Baptize Another Person? covers it thoroughly.

Romans 9:15-18 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

yeah i personally don’t think if you get baptized it means your all the sudden holy in all you do his being a thief is why he would have gotten baptized you don’t get baptized if you think your sinless you get baptized because you repent over your sins and acknolwedge them like he did on the cross

“But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:40-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He acknowledged his sins in repentance which is why anyone gets baptized to have then remitted. Whether he got baptized isn’t provable either way it’s not written down.

But the fact he stole something and later repented and confessed wouldn’t have any weight either way regarding whether he got baptized or not

all we actually know of this guy is that he was a sinner like everyone else is , he heard and believed Jesus preaching the gospel of the kingdom and believed we know this because he acknowledged it

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:42-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So we know he sinned and was repenting , he heard and believes the gospel of the kingdom and confessed his faith acknowledging his sins and asking for Christs mercy to accept him

basically he’s every Christian who’s saved by faith. The question whether he was baptized or not isnt answered for us in scripture either way we have to guess

my point was when people use that example of how “ no one needs to get baptized “ like the op says it’s an erroneous idea from the start because there’s nothing to tell us he wasn’t baptized it’s just one of those faulty points to use him as an example of someone not getting baptized is all
I’m saying it doesn’t hold water because no one actually has any evidence whether he was baptized or wasn’t his part in e story is not complete we just simply don’t know

you think it’s a boast to hear Jesus say this and believe and obey it ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your argument is if anyone believes that they just don’t understand grace and faith ? And now they are going to go around boasting about how they saved themselves ?

because they heard what the lord said believe and do that believing it’s true then they are saving themselves and going to go boast to everyone how thier work of baptism saved themselves ?

we could never obey God if we thought obeying god is self righteous and a boast

Satan will always be telling us we don’t need to hear and believe and obey Gods word

Jesus will always be telling us hear my word and believe and follow me and I’ll give you everlasting life

Faith doesn’t replace Gods word it hears it and accepts and believes baptism for remission is something Christ died to offer mankind as a free gift where all you have to do is hear and believe it it’s his promise

It’s crazy how Christian’s find ways to refuse the gospel

It’s a foregone conclusion that the thief died that day along with Jesus and was not baptized. To believe otherwise is sidestepping common sense as to the finality of crucifixion.

you should have read the whole conversation brother my contention is. I thing like that

my contention is that there’s no evidence either way and it’s likely if anything he was baptized here with all the people of the regions

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭

my conjecture (just like anyones on the matter is conjecture) isn’t that “ he didn’t die on the cross that day and was later baptized , you would have to read the conversation through

but my point of conjecture was that he was probably baptized when all the people of the region where he was crucified , we’re baptized before his death a couple years later. There’s no proof either way

I hope that clears up any confusion my contention and it’s just conjecture because we don’t know either way , is that he was probably baptized before when the people were all rushing to get baptized by John

to conclude that he couldn’t have been baptized beforehand when baptism was sweeping through the regions is erroneous conclusion because it’s wuote possible he was among those who were baptized beforehand

again my point is we don’t know either way if he was baptized to use that as an example of someone who wasn’t baptized being saved is not solid and can’t be concluded by scripture

awe of course all have our thoughts about whether he was baptized but no one really has that answer just our own thoughts but all
Of us are t dying on a cross in a couple hours and restrained from getting baptized either way like he was so it’s not a good example of salvstion without baptism is my only point

I just chimed in to agree with the op it’s not a good point to use if your an advocate of baptism not being necassary or connected to salvation

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

faith is to hear and believe Gods word sometimes when we start trying to reason why it doesnt apply we’re missing the simplicity of faith which can’t avoid what the lord said because that’s where faith comes from hearing what he said

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭KJV

faith is simple like that we hear about baptism for remission of sins in Jesus name and we believe it is true so we accept the gift and get baptized and have our sins remitted by the design of God who is the one that established baptism for us

we should and can just simply hear what the lord said will save us and believe of we do that we’re going to find ourselves following what he had to say by faith

If we hear what he said and say “ I don’t accept that “ we’re just kicking against the pricks “ if we hear what he said and accept the wonderful gift it really is to have our sins remitted being baptized into Christs name why do we then consider baptism some unfaithful work ?

it’s just Gods promise saying if you believe get baptized and I’ll remit your sins and give you a new spirit and flood you with mercy and teach you the truth

when we receive it as anything else a boast or a work in necassary for salvation or not for remission of sins we’re just simply rejecting what God has designed for us to believe and do like the simplest thing such as baptism for remission of Our sins

who wouldn’t run to the water believing that ?

But who wouldn’t bother if they are convinced it isn’t true and doesn’t mean what he said ?

belief of the gospel is how we learn to step in faith there isn’t faith without his word and instructions To us and corresponding promises

You repent and get baptized in my name - and I will remit all your sins

you hear the gospel and believe and walk by faith - and I will save your everlasting soul

faith hears and follows and receives the promises

Please don't address my post like that. Nothing you said is contained in my thoughts nor posting. Thanks.💞

Not if you use normal reading comprehension and leave out the humanism.

That's your words and not that of the bible. The below is pretty clear when the gift happens

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.