"The rich man And Lazarus..."

Saul-to-Paul · Sep 17, 2022

Snacks said:

Jesus a sinner? The Son of man.

posthuman · Sep 17, 2022

Saul-to-Paul said:

clearly, yes

The wicked plots against the just,

and gnashes at him with his teeth.

The LORD laughs at him,

for He sees that his day is coming.

(Psalm 37:12-13)

posthuman · Sep 17, 2022

JTB said:

God Himself indeed laughs in derision -- see previous post, Psalm 37

agree we should not be spitefully mocking each other ((i am guilty)), but we must learn to be gentle in reproof, walking in the light of love for each other

Runningman · Sep 17, 2022

Saul-to-Paul said:

I genuinely don’t know why you said the rich man is Jesus. Would love to see you unpack that. I’m definitely an open-minded Christian and all things will be considered.

Runningman · Sep 17, 2022

Snacks said:

1 Peter 3:15,16
15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

Snacks · Sep 17, 2022

posthuman said:

Coming from me that goes without saying, however you are correct in pointing that out because there are young brethren in the faith who may not know that.

Snacks · Sep 17, 2022

Saul-to-Paul said:

I refer you to post #226.

persistent · Sep 17, 2022

Webers.Home said:

.

Biblical death isn't necessarily the termination of one's existence, rather, it's
more often a phase of one's existence.

For example: God told Adam he would die from tasting the forbidden fruit--
he would did the very day, not later. Well; Adam didn't pass away until
something like 800 years after the birth of his son Seth-- a birth which took
place after Adam tasted the fruit.

The thing is: Adam was created in the image of God, i.e. he was created with
immortality.

Adam's penalty for tasting the fruit was his loss of immortality, i.e. Adam's body
became infected with mortality, which is a lingering death rather than instant death.
Mortality is slow, but relentless. It feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear;
it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely will not
stop-- ever! --until your body becomes so broken down that it cannot continue.

There is another death that's not so obvious. Jesus spoke of it at John 5:24
where he says:

"I assure you: those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent
me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they
have already passed from death into life.

There's quite a bit of debate over the nature of the death spoken of in that
passage but suffice it to say that its victims are dead to God, i.e. cursed,
alienated, estranged, shunned, and disconnected. This is an interesting kind
of death because there are folks at large religious to the bone who are dead
to God and don't know it.

There is yet another death. This one is a classification consisting of
everything imaginable that's distasteful and/or offensive to God that He
wants out of His sight; and it's all slated for permanent disposal in a lake of
brimstone. (Rev 20:14)
_

I might be way off base here but is it possible that Jn. 5:24 is where people started coming up with things like zombies and living dead and such?

Webers.Home · Sep 17, 2022

.
• Luke 16:25 . . Abraham said: Son, remember

I should think that one of the negative aspects of perdition is memory.

How people down there retain their memories sans the brain cells they left
behind with their corpse, I don't know; but they do. Apparently God has
some sort of file transfer protocol that silicon valley has yet to discover.

The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those
memories haunt us with terrible regret. Well; some regrets can be resolved,
but for many; their past is a fixed frozen sea.
_

Snacks · Sep 17, 2022

Runningman said:

Ooh, attempting to use Scripture as a weapon in an effort to conceal your inability to answer your own question. Well played. 👏

Runningman · Sep 17, 2022

Snacks said:

Interesting. You see these New Testament verses as a weapon.

Runningman · Sep 17, 2022

Webers.Home said:

.

Biblical death isn't necessarily the termination of one's existence, rather, it's
more often a phase of one's existence.

For example: God told Adam he would die from tasting the forbidden fruit--
he would did the very day, not later. Well; Adam didn't pass away until
something like 800 years after the birth of his son Seth-- a birth which took
place after Adam tasted the fruit.

The thing is: Adam was created in the image of God, i.e. he was created with
immortality.

Adam's penalty for tasting the fruit was his loss of immortality, i.e. Adam's body
became infected with mortality, which is a lingering death rather than instant death.
Mortality is slow, but relentless. It feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear;
it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely will not
stop-- ever! --until your body becomes so broken down that it cannot continue.

There is another death that's not so obvious. Jesus spoke of it at John 5:24
where he says:

"I assure you: those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent
me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they
have already passed from death into life.

There's quite a bit of debate over the nature of the death spoken of in that
passage but suffice it to say that its victims are dead to God, i.e. cursed,
alienated, estranged, shunned, and disconnected. This is an interesting kind
of death because there are folks at large religious to the bone who are dead
to God and don't know it.

There is yet another death. This one is a classification consisting of
everything imaginable that's distasteful and/or offensive to God that He
wants out of His sight; and it's all slated for permanent disposal in a lake of
brimstone. (Rev 20:14)
_

Life is literal but death isn’t? So maybe life isn’t literal then? Your definitions aren’t consistent. I prefer we keep things neat and orderly. Life is you’re here forever; death is you’re gone forever.

Snacks · Sep 17, 2022

Runningman said:

Interesting. You altered the meaning of my post by excluding the word, “attempting”.

Saul-to-Paul · Sep 17, 2022

Runningman said:

As I have said, one cannot get pass the word "purple" in that parable if one is going to do it God's way(Spiritual with spiritual) and the word purple is never associated with an unsaved person.

So if one is refusing to spiritualize a Spiritual book, there really isn't any point of me spiritualizing the entire parable.

Webers.Home · Sep 17, 2022

.
• Luke 16:24 . . I am tormented in this flame.

Something to note is that the man is in fire rather than on fire, viz: he isn't
ablaze like a human torch, i.e. Hades is more like a furnace than an
incinerator; a place for baking rather than burning.

Another thing to note is the Greek word translated "tormented". It doesn't
necessarily indicate torture when it's primary meaning is grief, i.e. sorrow
and/or anguish. It's repeated again in Luke 16:25 where Abraham compares
the difference between the rich man 's circumstances and those of Lazarus.
In other words: whereas the beggar is happy, comfortable, and content, the
rich man isn't.
_

posthuman · Sep 17, 2022

Runningman said:

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,

but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead,

and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

(Romans 6:13)

interesting side-note:

the word translated into English as 'instruments' here is the Greek 'hopla' -- as in the hoplite phalynx, if the term means anything to you -- the word indicates not general 'instruments' in the connotation we think of it, but specifically instruments of warfare - there is a definite military context to it. a better translation is probably "armament" -- in general use, it referred to armor, weapons, etc. a soldier's kit. native Greek speakers wouldn't use this word to describe a musical instrument or a tool for ordinary work; the connotation is things used in combat. ((so i have read, anyway - i don't speak Greek))

i.e. yes, The Word is a sharp double-edged sword. we are made to be armament for righteousness, proceeding out of His mouth
the scripture is indeed a weapon against the powers of darkness, as are we: a dagger concealed in His hand, an arrow hidden in His quiver

quite beautiful, IMO

HeIsHere · Sep 17, 2022

Saul-to-Paul said:

The rich man is representative of the Jewish priests, Lazuras is representative of the gentiles.

This story is a foreshadowing of the coming judgment on the Jewish priests for their unbelief and losing the favor of God.

Lazarus "the gentiles" had become the recipient of good things as they placed their faith in Christ Jesus.

It is stated quite clearly here:

And he said, "Nay, father Abraham: But if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent." And he said unto him, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:19-31

Magenta · Sep 17, 2022

Runningman said:

I would call that hyperbole, not a parable... one of many literary devices used in Scripture.
People go on an on about reading the Bible as being literal and needing to obey Jesus, but
I have never seen, met, nor heard of any Christian who gouged out their eyes or lopped off
any limbs. So according to the logic and line of reasoning of some, Jesus must have been
lying to say what He did there. Just sayin' = to show the inconsistencies being presented

The Parables of Jesus - Full List with Bible Verses (biblestudytools.com)

Runningman · Sep 17, 2022

posthuman said:

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,

but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead,

and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

(Romans 6:13)

interesting side-note:

the word translated into English as 'instruments' here is the Greek 'hopla' -- as in the hoplite phalynx, if the term means anything to you -- the word indicates not general 'instruments' in the connotation we think of it, but specifically instruments of warfare - there is a definite military context to it. a better translation is probably "armament" -- in general use, it referred to armor, weapons, etc. a soldier's kit. native Greek speakers wouldn't use this word to describe a musical instrument or a tool for ordinary work; the connotation is things used in combat. ((so i have read, anyway - i don't speak Greek))

i.e. yes, The Word is a sharp double-edged sword. we are made to be armament for righteousness, proceeding out of His mouth
the scripture is indeed a weapon against the powers of darkness, as are we: a dagger concealed in His hand, an arrow hidden in His quiver

quite beautiful, IMO

Wow very nice. Thank you for that. I wasn’t even aware of how the word was used in that verse. There’s so many things that could have been translated better from what I’ve seen so far.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 17, 2022

persistent said:

No. There is mention of zombies/living dead in that verse. Or any other verse, for that matter.

Are you aware of what John 5:24 teaches?

"The rich man And Lazarus..."

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