Thief in the Night-- Pretrib or Second Coming?

In pre-tribulational rapture teaching, is Jesus supposed to come as a 'thief in the night' at the rapture, the second coming, or both?


I don't see multiple returns of Christ in scripture, so I can't make the distinction since I don't see it in scripture. But what does pre-trib eschatology say about this?

Scriptures speak of Christ coming FOR His saints, and a coming WITH His saints. One is the Rapture , the other His Second Advent.

As you can be the same person but relate two different ways to two other people, so will Jesus' coming be. He is coming as a thief in the night to those that have an indifferent regard towards him and with healing in his wings to those who fear His Name.
Malachi 4:1-2
The Great Day of the LORD
“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.” 2“But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings, and you will go out and leap like calves from the stall.

The dead in Christ rise first, and then we that are alive and remain shall meet the Lord... in the air. That explains how Jesus can come for His saints, but return with them.

“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;( his first coming when he died and rose and went to heaven )

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He will return at the end of the world first this happens

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice the church is on earth otherwise who is preaching the gospel until the end ?

“teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Notice he the elect at the end of the world ? But some come from heaven and others from earth ? Those who already died are with him there and those who remain alive in earth believing when he returns after all tribulation come from earth

it’s after the tribulation that he comes only once more when he came he said he’s come get her us again at the end and told us to stand strong In Faith until the end whether our own death or the day he returns

“And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:6-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s actually preparing Christian’s to endure whatever comes against us and remain strong in him until it’s over and not saying “ you won’t ever go through tribulation on earth “ he’s saying you will go through it but stay strong because when it’s over your reward is with me

"as a thief in the night". Whereas "the thief comes to rob..." , Jesus' coming as a thief is not equivalent to Jesus actually being a thief, everything is His, bought and paid for. He returns to reclaim everything that is His, i.e., to conduct a proverbial repossession of those that have outstanding unpaid debt.

Have you noticed that this 'thief in the night' verse in the book of Revelation does not show up right after Revelation 3. It is placed after the sixth bowl of wrath.

Revelation 16
15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
(NKJV)

That's rather late in the Book of Revelation.

Second coming because in the middle of the vials in the book of Revelation Jesus still has not returned and says its a future event:


Revelation 16:15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

Had I seen this previously I wouldn't of responded. Oops! Well, you right, this is a great argument. I've heard a pre-trib preacher claim this is just one of those "in the middle of the story" warnings to the reader like hey! the rapture is coming now, dont get caught up in the tribulation period!
The lengths they go to twist scripture is insane. But that usually happens when you got one false doctrine you have to twist everything to match it

Having read the Word many, many times through, I know I see two advents of Jesus Yeshua, once in the flesh and second in Glory.

It is clearly stated the second time will be on "the last day" whien He will send His angels to collect all the saints to Him, those who sleep first then those who are quick in the flesh, that is those who are yet alive. This, I suppose , is what has come to be known as the rapture. On the LAST DAY.

Jesus is coming back one time and all those things described will happen at that time.

Jesus coming as a thief in the night refers to an appearance at a time people aren’t expecting. This deals primarily with those who aren’t concerned about the matters of God such as those who weren’t prepared from the flood in the days of Noah. Matthew 24:36-51.

However, the brothers and sisters in Christ, or the children of light, will not be surprised as if by a thief. See 1 Thessalonians 5:4.

Pre-tribulation also tends to separate the return of Christ from the day of Lord, but actually they occur simultaneously.

2 Peter 3:10
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
-This is obviously not referring to the Rapture. This occurs much later.



1 Thessalonians 5:2 Context

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

This may or may not be referring to the Tribulation that immediately follows the Rapture, but verses 4 and 5 seem to refer to being raptured out at some time previous to this. That day shall not overtake us.

There is probably more than one event encompassed by "Day of the Lord." I believe that it generally refers to the end times.

“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;( the account of the gospel )

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”( his return )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everyone will know the day he returns

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is a harvest day for the world

“Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this.

The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

the field is the world;

the good seed are the children of the kingdom;

but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

the enemy that sowed them is the devil;

the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:24-30, 37-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not different events but different details of the same event . notice he doesn’t remove the wheat but comes and removes the chaff at the end when it’s harvest time and gathers the wheat at that time it’s only a single event it will end this world nd usher in the new

We will all be perfectly aware it this happens before we pass through

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭

that only applies for the last generation when the world ends with his return before that when we pass through this body and our flesh dies we’re going to be the elect he gs thy earth from heaven in the end and brings with him Because we are t the dead in Christ but the living

This is definitely not about Christ coming "at the end of the world". So the focus should be "unto salvation". What exactly does that mean to people who are already saved by grace? It refers back to the fact that salvation will only be completed when all the saints have been perfected, transformed, and glorified. And that can only happen at the Resurrection/Rapture. Which is not two separate events but in fact one event.

We should next focus on "as a thief in the night". This distinguishes the Resurrection/Rapture from the Second Coming in that at the Second Coming all the inhabitants of the world can see Christ descending from Heaven with all His saints and angels, and it is evident to all that Christ is coming (Rev 1:7). The allusion to "a thief in the night" means that Christ comes (a) suddenly and (b) unexpectedly. That is exactly what He says about the Rapture in Matthew 24 and 25. Christ warns Christians again and again that He will come when He is least expected. "Therefore be ye also ready". The Parable of the Ten Virgins in fact confirms this.

Now because Christ descends from Heaven WITH His saints at the Second Coming, it should be obvious that He had already come previously FOR His saints. And that again confirms that the Rapture is separated from the Second Coming by at least seven years. Furthermore between the Rapture and the Second Coming, there is an extremely important event which is ignored altogether by the naysayers. That is the Marriage of the Lamb (Rev 19). Since the Church is the Bride of Christ (who is the divine Bridegroom), all the saints must be present in Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb BEFORE Christ descends with His saints and angels to bring destruction upon His enemies, and the enemies of Israel.

People should simply ignore all the claptrap about Christ coming "at the end of the world". It certainly does not end at His Second Coming since after the battle of Armageddon, Christ establishes His Millennial Kingdom on earth. Following that there are several other significant events.

He will come as a thief in the night for those who do not believe in His nor trust in His atonement.. Not the Children of the Light..

(1 Thessalonians 5:2-6) "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. {3} For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. {4} But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. {5} Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. {6} Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

Oh i am not a believer in Pre-trib rapture.. I believe the rapture will happen on the day of the LORD.. The day of the second coming of Jesus..

Yes, because it will follow the Rapture and seven years of Tribulation, as you posted:
Those saved during the Trib (many Jews) will be gathered (the dead from heaven and the still living from the ends of the Earth) after the Trib when we (the previously raptured Church) return with Him to Earth:

Brother can I ask what scriptures make you would think there’s a pre tribulation rapture ? Or any of what your saying there ?