What is your opinion about the "Historical Jesus"?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#21
They‘ve done some models on this and have come up with a few images … which I personally don’t like but I do like this depiction below:

View attachment 243283
Aw no cain't hack it Eli ... "Jesus the Light of the world" is ok I suppose, the one where He is standing at the door knocking .... actually the artist used a woman for the model I believe.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,230
1,126
113
New Zealand
#22
Aw no cain't hack it Eli ... "Jesus the Light of the world" is ok I suppose, the one where He is standing at the door knocking .... actually the artist used a woman for the model I believe.
Yea ... what about the probable brown eyes and ruddy complexion? Not sure the nose looks Jewish either :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,946
29,307
113
#23
They‘ve done some models on this and have come up with a few images …
which I personally don’t like but I do like this depiction below:

Aw no cain't hack it Eli ... "Jesus the Light of the world" is ok I suppose, the one where He is
standing at the door knocking .... actually the artist used a woman for the model I believe.
I think that one was done by a child who has been painting His image since she was ... a child.

Akiane Kramarik is a self-taught painter and says that Jesus spoke to her when she was four years old,
encouraging her to draw and paint her visions. She began to draw at the age of four, was painting at six,
and began to write poetry at seven. At the age of 8 years old, Akiane painted Jesus. Her first completed
self-portrait sold for US$10,000.


Kramarik's best-known painting is Prince of Peace, which she completed at the age of eight. [wiki]
 

jd01

New member
Mar 3, 2022
26
6
3
Nova Scotia
#24
As your initials match those of the author, I would conclude you are him. I will caution you against using this site as a promotional vehicle.

That said, you are welcome to raise this or any other Bible-related issue for discussion. My personal view is that the historical Jesus and the theological Jesus are the same. However... if we approach the subject from a purely historical perspective, we are likely to conclude that Jesus was not God incarnate... and we would be sorely mistaken. ;)
Hmmm .... you can have a conclusion not based on evidence, that is not based on history?
 

jd01

New member
Mar 3, 2022
26
6
3
Nova Scotia
#25
why would you come to a Bible discussion forum , wondering how to know about the real Jesus Christ ?

you know all those ancient scriptures that teach mankind what to believe about Jesus ?

A wonderful thing happened Mankind actually believed in thier value of what they say enough to put them in a book which was until about 20 years ago the most published , studied and believed in book on earth , in this book at its center re four accounts written by eye witnesses who walked with Jesus d we’re made his witnesses tonthe ends of earth until the end of the world ……..

if we want to know Jesus we can find the truth in the gospel cording to Matthew , the gospel according to mark , the gospel according to Luke and the gospel according to John.

you will find many who wrote books telling us who jesus is , and then find one that’s filled with God telling us who Jesus really is and beckoning us to believe him and be saved
I assumed a Bible discussion forum was a place to learn about Jesus.

I agree, the Gospels teach all we need to know about Jesus, although two are not eye-witness accounts.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#26
I assumed a Bible discussion forum was a place to learn about Jesus.

I agree, the Gospels teach all we need to know about Jesus, although two are not eye-witness accounts.

But they are accounts from eyewitnes's.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,946
29,307
113
#27
Hmmm .... you can have a conclusion not based on evidence, that is not based on history?
The "lack of evidence" claim is from the secular sector, not the Bible. The Bible is a historical record.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,704
2,020
113
46
#28
@jd01 Im not sure what you’d like to discuss because your initial question is “Is the historical Jesus different from Biblical Jesus” and as many have pointed out the answer is Yes, there is a difference.
So not sure what’d you’d like to discuss next.
 

jd01

New member
Mar 3, 2022
26
6
3
Nova Scotia
#29
Whose historical Jesus? And whose Christ of Theology? There are many versions in either category.


Unfortunately they are not. Getting a degree and proclaiming oneself an expert
means nothing if one has no faith. The important thing is, who do you say Jesus is?



Do you know Jesus personally? While speaking to those who denied Who He was (God in the flesh), Jesus said,
"That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
One must be careful where one places faith, woudn't you agree? I say he is what was as described by two gospel writers.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,704
2,020
113
46
#30
One must be careful where one places faith, woudn't you agree? I say he is what was as described by two gospel writers.
Ooooh I see.
So you’re another technical guy when reading the Bible.
“If you read this line you will go to Hell, but if you read this line you are saved and you will go to Heaven”.

Well, I hope you will find what you’re looking for.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,998
5,673
113
#31
I assumed a Bible discussion forum was a place to learn about Jesus.

I agree, the Gospels teach all we need to know about Jesus, although two are not eye-witness accounts.
Luke is based entirely on eye witness accounts , mark wrote peters account , John and Matthew were also eye witnesses

“Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Luke’s account is based on many eye witnesses including his own account which he says is a perfect understanding of all things gospel

the apostles are really important to the founding of the church because they were with him even Paul witnesses the Risen lord afterwards when he was appointed to apostleship by Christ

acts also is based on eye witness accounts

what I was saying is if we learn the gospel we will know Christ in truth know God in truth and begin to have a fuller understanding of him but if we go to other peoples ideas of Jesus we are t going to have that personal knowledge that he alone is able to reveal To us

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, ( the gospel ) that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭

The gospels purpose is for believers to come to know God in truth

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:18

if we make the gospel the truth of God it’s going to bring us to know him personally based on faith hearing and believing the gospel

When we see Jesus interacting with people that believed in him like the sinful woman in luke 7 who came weeping at his feet in repentance , we’re starting to understand our God and being saved by faith he takes a know sinner rejected by the “ righteous” people and he rebuked the so called righteous and says of the sinful repentant woman “ your faith in me has saved you go in peace “

we can begin to understand our father that’s what it’s all about Through Christ d the true gospel God is revealing that his desire is to be our father and for us to be his children . This is what the gospel is able to reveal new relationship between man and God a Father d child relationship

this is why the father and son is the center piece of all doctrine Gods word is about saving his children and bringing them back into his eternal family

We can only find this when we go to Christ and believe the things he was teaching

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we go to the gospel as we learn these things Jesus repetitively teaches those who accept him and believe we come to change how we think and see God he’s no longer high on a throne and unknowable because Jesus is God coming To us and saying “here I am this is me , this is what I want from you , this is what I’ll give to you , this is how I care for you , this is all I have done for you to save your soul just believe me and you will be saved d I will give you more than you can imagine even eternal
Life with me “

the gospel is how we can know the truth of God whom is revealed himself in Christ Jesus
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#32
Cunning and deceptive is what I think. Not about Jesus, but the OP. Trying to sell a book.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#33
As your initials match those of the author, I would conclude you are him. I will caution you against using this site as a promotional vehicle.

That said, you are welcome to raise this or any other Bible-related issue for discussion. My personal view is that the historical Jesus and the theological Jesus are the same. However... if we approach the subject from a purely historical perspective, we are likely to conclude that Jesus was not God incarnate... and we would be sorely mistaken. ;)
Totally agree and both from NS.

He tried advertising his book, Salt & Light; The Complete Jesus some weeks back. Quite a right up about it but it turns out that he is unsure of his spiritual status as can be seen on his bio. I would conclude that his book is actually NOT the complete Jesus as regards his knowledge of the Complete Jesus.

IMO, this is still all about book sales as per his op in which that book is once again plugged in a not so obvious way.

Of course, that may just be me...:unsure::whistle:
 
P

Polar

Guest
#34
They‘ve done some models on this and have come up with a few images … which I personally don’t like but I do like this depiction below:

View attachment 243283
ah yes

The blond blue eyed Jesus. He and I must have similar dna. :geek: I have no facial hair tho...:unsure:
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,704
2,020
113
46
#35
ah yes

The blond blue eyed Jesus. He and I must have similar dna. :geek: I have no facial hair tho...:unsure:
‘He’s not blonde in that drawing. :D
In that drawing there are middle eastern features but I like that one because as @Magenta mentioned was drawn by a child who has a long history of visions and God reveals himself to children many times.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,946
29,307
113
#36
One must be careful where one places faith, woudn't you agree? I say he is what was as described by two gospel writers.
Which two gospel writers do you agree with, and what about the
other two - and all the other writers of all the other Scriptures???
 
P

Polar

Guest
#37
‘He’s not blonde in that drawing. :D
In that drawing there are middle eastern features but I like that one because as @Magenta mentioned was drawn by a child who has a long history of visions and God reveals himself to children many times.
Oh sure he is. As a blond myself, and as all blonds know, your hair gets darker as you age. Mine used to be white but it's about the same color as that painting (artfully rendered no doubt) and I get highlights put in because it's darker.

Actually, this is what scripture says about our Lord:

He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no stately form or majesty to attract us, no beauty that we should desire Him. Isaiah 53:2

I mean you can like all the art you want, and you can fancy believing children have visions of what Jesus really looked like, but the actual Bible describes someone quite different.

I fancy Jesus on the white horse myself but I don't think I could render his visage.

Sorry but I don't give 2 shakes of a lamb's tail about the child's ' visions'. You should see my dreams. Most are not from God tho...:unsure:
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,704
2,020
113
46
#38
Oh sure he is. As a blond myself, and as all blonds know, your hair gets darker as you age. Mine used to be white but it's about the same color as that painting (artfully rendered no doubt) and I get highlights put in because it's darker.

Actually, this is what scripture says about our Lord:

He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no stately form or majesty to attract us, no beauty that we should desire Him. Isaiah 53:2

I mean you can like all the art you want, and you can fancy believing children have visions of what Jesus really looked like, but the actual Bible describes someone quite different.

I fancy Jesus on the white horse myself but I don't think I could render his visage.

Sorry but I don't give 2 shakes of a lamb's tail about the child's ' visions'. You should see my dreams. Most are not from God tho...:unsure:
I understand what you’re saying and YES we don’t have a picture from that time but this is simply a personal preference and not The Truth.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#39
Hmmm .... you can have a conclusion not based on evidence, that is not based on history?
How aware of you regarding how history has been recorded? Do you know how the Egyptians treated it? Or the Romans? or how about people who start out with a premise they wish to prove and actually are not sure of what they believe?

hmmmm?

Due to inaccurate journalism and downright lying these days, BLM with their 1613 project, the desire to rewrite the history of the civil war in this country and make it all about slavery...which it most certainly was not...and this is actually the present day and age so I would challenge anyone to come up with what might described as dependable and very accurate 'history'

And yet and perhaps sadly, that is what we have. How much has disappeared. People cannot even agree on which books should be in the Bible and charge that the book of Enoch should not be when even Jesus quoted from it. Mind you, it does create quite the alarming picture not quite found in our current 66 books...I am no expert so I don't know if it belongs or not.

I do know that you cannot write about a complete Jesus when you do not know Him.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,946
29,307
113
#40
‘He’s not blonde in that drawing. :D
In that drawing there are middle eastern features but I like that one because as @Magenta mentioned
was drawn by a child who has a long history of visions and God reveals himself to children many times.
I find it interesting that people seem to think they know what Jesus looks/looked like when
even those who knew Him personally did not readily recognize Him post-resurrection. Pre-
resurrection, Isaiah spoke of one Who had "
no form nor comeliness" and "no beauty that we
should desire Him
;" He was "despised and rejected of men", and as one "we hid as it were our
faces from Him; He was despised, and we esteemed Him not."
That was the "before"...