What is your opinion about the "Historical Jesus"?
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As your initials match those of the author, I would conclude you are him. I will caution you against using this site as a promotional vehicle.
That said, you are welcome to raise this or any other Bible-related issue for discussion. My personal view is that the historical Jesus and the theological Jesus are the same. However... if we approach the subject from a purely historical perspective, we are likely to conclude that Jesus was not God incarnate... and we would be sorely mistaken.
That said, you are welcome to raise this or any other Bible-related issue for discussion. My personal view is that the historical Jesus and the theological Jesus are the same. However... if we approach the subject from a purely historical perspective, we are likely to conclude that Jesus was not God incarnate... and we would be sorely mistaken.
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why would you come to a Bible discussion forum , wondering how to know about the real Jesus Christ ?
you know all those ancient scriptures that teach mankind what to believe about Jesus ?
A wonderful thing happened Mankind actually believed in thier value of what they say enough to put them in a book which was until about 20 years ago the most published , studied and believed in book on earth , in this book at its center re four accounts written by eye witnesses who walked with Jesus d we’re made his witnesses tonthe ends of earth until the end of the world ……..
if we want to know Jesus we can find the truth in the gospel cording to Matthew , the gospel according to mark , the gospel according to Luke and the gospel according to John.
you will find many who wrote books telling us who jesus is , and then find one that’s filled with God telling us who Jesus really is and beckoning us to believe him and be saved
you know all those ancient scriptures that teach mankind what to believe about Jesus ?
A wonderful thing happened Mankind actually believed in thier value of what they say enough to put them in a book which was until about 20 years ago the most published , studied and believed in book on earth , in this book at its center re four accounts written by eye witnesses who walked with Jesus d we’re made his witnesses tonthe ends of earth until the end of the world ……..
if we want to know Jesus we can find the truth in the gospel cording to Matthew , the gospel according to mark , the gospel according to Luke and the gospel according to John.
you will find many who wrote books telling us who jesus is , and then find one that’s filled with God telling us who Jesus really is and beckoning us to believe him and be saved
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Whose historical Jesus? And whose Christ of Theology? There are many versions in either category.
Unfortunately they are not. Getting a degree and proclaiming oneself an expert
means nothing if one has no faith. The important thing is, who do you say Jesus is?
Do you know Jesus personally? While speaking to those who denied Who He was (God in the flesh), Jesus said,
"That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Unfortunately they are not. Getting a degree and proclaiming oneself an expert
means nothing if one has no faith. The important thing is, who do you say Jesus is?
Do you know Jesus personally? While speaking to those who denied Who He was (God in the flesh), Jesus said,
"That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
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In a nutshell the so-called quest for the historical Jesus is attempt to remove theology from Jesus the 'man'. There have been a few so called quests.. First, new, second and third.
From weiss, schwietser, wrede (Messianic secret) through to bultman and his students kasemann etc, in the 70's and 80's Dunn, sanders and wright. Including the Jesus seminar - crossan and borg etc. Although Wright has written in defence of the supernatural ( compare his Green book)
Basically it's asupernatural if anything at all can be reconstructed of the historical Jesus. Jesus is a mere man - maybe a bit special or maybe a bit deluded - Schwietser wrote of a failed Messiah.
However the tide has turned with those who defend the supernatural in history of Jesus. Wright et Al. That is they don't seperate the theological from the historical.
An interesting point is Wredes view on the Messianic secret. He used it to show how Mark in his redaction could explain a later invented supernatural Jesus in early Christian tradition.
Would you agree or disagree with this? I don't agree, but the i can see a 'Messianic secret' but not to harmonise/hide/change a later church view with the earlier. Of course we have to ask who the secret is veiled from 'outsiders' or 'insiders'?
Anyhow, would make a good discussion..
I don't know about that document, but when you said "historical Jesus", it reminded me of the magazine stand Jesus, and History channel Jesus'. Those are false representations.
We know about the Living Word through the written Word. Any other early historical accounts I've read were superficial and unnecessary.
The magazine stand so called Jesus are blasphemous depictions. I'm not accusing you of such. You need to be specific and not vague when asking of our Savior.
We know about the Living Word through the written Word. Any other early historical accounts I've read were superficial and unnecessary.
The magazine stand so called Jesus are blasphemous depictions. I'm not accusing you of such. You need to be specific and not vague when asking of our Savior.
Here are two visions of Jesus.
Ezekiel 1:26-28
Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him. As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.
Revelation 1:13-17
And in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man.
One is definitely the historical Jesus and the other was the prophetic Jesus.
Ezekiel 1:26-28
Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him. As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.
Revelation 1:13-17
And in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man.
One is definitely the historical Jesus and the other was the prophetic Jesus.
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
The historical Jesus and the Biblical Jesus are two different things.
The historical Jesus is important , at least for me, because it proves that Jesus was here among us.
During my atheist days when I was searching for God, this was an important step for me because it proved that Jesus existed like many people in History. That’s all I needed to then make the next step into the Biblical Jesus.
People who don’t believe in Historical Jesus are considered a Fringe group according to Wikipedia which has a left-wing bias.
They are the equivalent of flat-earthers or other conspiracy theory nuts.
The historical Jesus is important , at least for me, because it proves that Jesus was here among us.
During my atheist days when I was searching for God, this was an important step for me because it proved that Jesus existed like many people in History. That’s all I needed to then make the next step into the Biblical Jesus.
People who don’t believe in Historical Jesus are considered a Fringe group according to Wikipedia which has a left-wing bias.
They are the equivalent of flat-earthers or other conspiracy theory nuts.
P
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come.
Historically speaking i think you better go further back than the new testament.
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come.
Historically speaking i think you better go further back than the new testament.
This is covered by the likes of The Case for Christ and Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
Those who have seperated the Christ of the bible from the Christ of history have not been fair in comparing other texts with the bible. They have been saying things like Caesar is a real person and what is written of him is sound.. and then even though the bible has BETTER attestation than info about Caesar, they relegate Jesus to being just a man.
Those who have seperated the Christ of the bible from the Christ of history have not been fair in comparing other texts with the bible. They have been saying things like Caesar is a real person and what is written of him is sound.. and then even though the bible has BETTER attestation than info about Caesar, they relegate Jesus to being just a man.
Micah 5:2
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will come forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His times of coming forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity.
Sure looks like the argument for the historical Jesus fails to fulfill prophecy.
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will come forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His times of coming forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity.
Sure looks like the argument for the historical Jesus fails to fulfill prophecy.
