Scripture is Our Source of Truth???????????

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
hahaha!

i have said over and over what Greek Text Jerome and those who created the Nicene Creed had is the most authentic Version and i use that Version.

the KJV does not even describe the Son to the Father properly like the Creeds you promote do.

how can you use a Bible that does not match the Creeds you believe in?
I have no idea what you are saying or why you are saying it. The rules of language dont apply to you so I dont have any clue how to understand you.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,183
1,574
113
68
Brighton, MI
the word doctrine was not applied in the early Greek Texts. had that word existed in the Greek, Jerome and the Early Creeds would have adopted it. they used the Greek Word available which was Teachings.

the Word Doctrine was first used in the Latin Language so your Hebrew suggestion is absolutely incorrect!
Taken in the sense of "the act of teaching" and "the knowledge imparted by teaching", this term is synonymous with CATECHESIS and CATECHISM. Didaskalia, didache, in the Vulgate, doctrina, are often used in the New Testament, especially in the Pastoral Epistles. As we might expect, the Apostle insists upon "doctrine" as one of the most important duties of a bishop (1 Timothy 4:13, 16; 5:17; 2 Timothy 4:2, etc.).

St. Philip the Deacon preached "of the kingdom of God, in the name of Jesus Christ"; and the Samaritans "were baptized, both men and women" (Acts 8). Furthermore, St. Peter and St. John came from Jerusalem and "prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost"; and doubtless declared to them the doctrine of that Holy Spirit (ibid.).

The work of the Apologists had been to remove prejudices against Christianity, and to set forth its doctrines and practices in such a way as to appeal to the fair-minded pagan. If anyone was moved to embrace the true religion, he was not at once admitted, as in the days of the Apostles. At first he was treated as an inquirer, and only the fundamental doctrines were communicated to him.

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm

The "Apologeticum adversus Rufinum" dealt with the Origenistic controversies. St. Jerome was involved in one of the most violent episodes of that struggle, which agitated the Church from Origen's lifetime until the Fifth Ecumenical Council (553). The question at issue was to determine if certain doctrines professed by Origen and others taught by certain pagan followers of Origen could be accepted
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08341a.htm

It is clear from the diversity of practice at the present day, that there is much uncertainty as to the doctrine concerning confirmation.

These passages suffice to show the doctrine and practice of the Church during the patristic age.
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04215b.htm

poisonous doctrines of all the heretics

To maintain such a doctrine

2. Well does one of our own writers say: the philosophers are the patriarchs of the heretics. It is they who have stained with their perverse doctrine the spotlessness of the Church, not knowing that of human weakness it is said: Why is earth and ashes proud?
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001133.htm

There are many places he uses the word doctrine.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001084.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3005.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3010.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001053.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001015.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/30091.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/27052.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2708.htm

"If this is your opinion, or rather since it is your opinion, that all from among the Jews who believe are debtors to do the whole law, you ought, as being a bishop of great fame in the whole world, to publish your doctrine, and labour to persuade all other bishops to agree with you. As for me in my humble cell, along with the monks my fellow-sinners, I do not presume to dogmatize in regard to things of great moment; I only confess frankly that I read the writings of the Fathers, and, complying with universal usage, put down in my commentaries a variety of explanations, that each may adopt from the number given the one which pleases him."
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102075.htm

***
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,183
1,574
113
68
Brighton, MI
" upon them also Christian doctrine imposed no such obligation "
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...r-source-of-truth.206900/page-14#post-4904332

"(1) There are very suggestive traces in the New Testament of the recognition of a certain "form of doctrine" (typos didaches, Romans 6:17) which moulded, as it were, the faith of new converts to Christ's law, and which involved not only the word of faith believed in the heart, but "with the mouth confession made unto salvation""
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04478a.htm

"The dogma of the Trinity
The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another."
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

Just as the Creed states in a very plain and precise way what the Catholic Faith is concerning the important doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation, so it asserts with equal plainness and precision what will happen to those who do not faithfully and steadfastly believe in these revealed truths.
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03555a.htm

by their perversion of doctrine
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0311.htm

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1304.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0853.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3202125.htm

"But I return to the point which especially I had in mind. And now I urge you, as a brother in the Lord, to propose the word of teaching and the doctrine of the faith with all accuracy to the people, and to consider that the giving of scandal to one even of the least of those who believe in Christ, exposes a body to the unbearable indignation of God."
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3810.htm

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3301.htm

"Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, when strengthening the knowledge of the Faith in his disciples, to the end that no one might disagree with his neighbour concerning the doctrines of religion, and that the proclamation of the truth might be set forth equally to all men,"
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3811.htm

https://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_14388a.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04423f.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3801.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm

"9. Of His cross what shall I speak, what say? This extremest kind of death He chose, that not any kind of death might make His Martyrs afraid. The doctrine He showed in His life as Man, the example of patience He demonstrated in His Cross."
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1307.htm

" From this, it would appear that the Montanists were suspected of heresy with regard to the doctrine of the Trinity."
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm



"19. First of all, then, we must know that the doctrine of the Cross is not regarded by all in the same light. "
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2711.htm
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,183
1,574
113
68
Brighton, MI
Dont let bantering with these guys foul up real-life.
Besides he already said he is the arbiter of what words mean and that he dont care about our language rules. So who knows what he means by what he says? Could be anything.
I am to tired to know wo you are talking about.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
Taken in the sense of "the act of teaching" and "the knowledge imparted by teaching", this term is synonymous with CATECHESIS and CATECHISM. Didaskalia, didache, in the Vulgate, doctrina, are often used in the New Testament, especially in the Pastoral Epistles. As we might expect, the Apostle insists upon "doctrine" as one of the most important duties of a bishop (1 Timothy 4:13, 16; 5:17; 2 Timothy 4:2, etc.).

St. Philip the Deacon preached "of the kingdom of God, in the name of Jesus Christ"; and the Samaritans "were baptized, both men and women" (Acts 8). Furthermore, St. Peter and St. John came from Jerusalem and "prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost"; and doubtless declared to them the doctrine of that Holy Spirit (ibid.).

The work of the Apologists had been to remove prejudices against Christianity, and to set forth its doctrines and practices in such a way as to appeal to the fair-minded pagan. If anyone was moved to embrace the true religion, he was not at once admitted, as in the days of the Apostles. At first he was treated as an inquirer, and only the fundamental doctrines were communicated to him.

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm

The "Apologeticum adversus Rufinum" dealt with the Origenistic controversies. St. Jerome was involved in one of the most violent episodes of that struggle, which agitated the Church from Origen's lifetime until the Fifth Ecumenical Council (553). The question at issue was to determine if certain doctrines professed by Origen and others taught by certain pagan followers of Origen could be accepted
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08341a.htm

It is clear from the diversity of practice at the present day, that there is much uncertainty as to the doctrine concerning confirmation.

These passages suffice to show the doctrine and practice of the Church during the patristic age.
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04215b.htm

poisonous doctrines of all the heretics

To maintain such a doctrine

2. Well does one of our own writers say: the philosophers are the patriarchs of the heretics. It is they who have stained with their perverse doctrine the spotlessness of the Church, not knowing that of human weakness it is said: Why is earth and ashes proud?
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001133.htm

There are many places he uses the word doctrine.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001084.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3005.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3010.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001053.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001015.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/30091.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/27052.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2708.htm

"If this is your opinion, or rather since it is your opinion, that all from among the Jews who believe are debtors to do the whole law, you ought, as being a bishop of great fame in the whole world, to publish your doctrine, and labour to persuade all other bishops to agree with you. As for me in my humble cell, along with the monks my fellow-sinners, I do not presume to dogmatize in regard to things of great moment; I only confess frankly that I read the writings of the Fathers, and, complying with universal usage, put down in my commentaries a variety of explanations, that each may adopt from the number given the one which pleases him."
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102075.htm

***
The word Doctrine didn't exist until the Latin Language 700 AD so St. Peter and John did no such thing as claim a Doctrine. They did claim a Teaching but never a Doctrine.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,183
1,574
113
68
Brighton, MI
The word Doctrine didn't exist until the Latin Language 700 AD so St. Peter and John did no such thing as claim a Doctrine. They did claim a Teaching but never a Doctrine.
It existed in Latin Before Chirst, I already showed you that Brother.,friend.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,183
1,574
113
68
Brighton, MI
All Latin Language not Greek.
Enjoy https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

"
As meticulous interpreters of the Bible and Christian doctrine, the Church Fathers had a decisive role in defining Christian identity against non-Christians as well as against other Christian thinkers they considered heretics. Due to this key role in distinguishing between ‘right’ and ‘false’, ‘orthodox’ and ‘heretic’, the writings of the Fathers – the so-called patristic heritage – became the most important cornerstone of Orthodox and Catholic Christian tradition after the Bible. No wonder, therefore, that the number of Greek manuscripts preserving such ‘patristic’ writings outnumbers the extant manuscripts of secular authors.
This extremely large and diverse ‘patristic legacy’ has reached us in various collections and compilations that can be divided into three categories:
...
Although collections containing works from the same church father survive in a great number of Greek manuscripts, their origin and history has just started to be explored. Some of them, such as the large body of authentic and spurious works attributed to the 2nd-century Justin Martyr (Additional 82951), are probably later scholarly compilations."
https://www.bl.uk/greek-manuscripts/articles/manuscripts-of-the-greek-church-fathers
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
Enjoy https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

"
As meticulous interpreters of the Bible and Christian doctrine, the Church Fathers had a decisive role in defining Christian identity against non-Christians as well as against other Christian thinkers they considered heretics. Due to this key role in distinguishing between ‘right’ and ‘false’, ‘orthodox’ and ‘heretic’, the writings of the Fathers – the so-called patristic heritage – became the most important cornerstone of Orthodox and Catholic Christian tradition after the Bible. No wonder, therefore, that the number of Greek manuscripts preserving such ‘patristic’ writings outnumbers the extant manuscripts of secular authors.
This extremely large and diverse ‘patristic legacy’ has reached us in various collections and compilations that can be divided into three categories:
...
Although collections containing works from the same church father survive in a great number of Greek manuscripts, their origin and history has just started to be explored. Some of them, such as the large body of authentic and spurious works attributed to the 2nd-century Justin Martyr (Additional 82951), are probably later scholarly compilations."
https://www.bl.uk/greek-manuscripts/articles/manuscripts-of-the-greek-church-fathers
Doesn't matter what the opinion of someone thinks it's a matter when the word itself existed. It existed in 700 AD
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,183
1,574
113
68
Brighton, MI
"There exists a very large and confusingly diverse group of Greek manuscripts containing different texts and documents related to religious services of the Greek Church, which are generally placed under the umbrella of liturgical texts and manuscripts. "
https://www.bl.uk/greek-manuscripts/articles/manuscripts-of-the-greek-liturgy

"If you know Latin, you can use the Patrologia Latina; if you know Greek, you can use the Patrologia Graeca. "
https://libguides.stthomas.edu/c.php?g=88750&p=571965
https://biblequestions.info/2020/07...-variations-in-the-new-testament-manuscripts/
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,183
1,574
113
68
Brighton, MI
falling asleep now.

been up dealing with care giving problems, besides it is time to preach.

I already showed that the greek words for doctrine existed before the time of Christ.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
falling asleep now.

been up dealing with care giving problems, besides it is time to preach.

I already showed that the greek words for doctrine existed before the time of Christ.
You showed words for Teaching that would 600 years later be translated as Doctrine.

That has been my point all along.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
779
113
We claim to have Scripture as our basis for Christion truth. But, are we being honest in doing so? In reality, much of our ‘truth’ is based solely on personal opinions of men and women, and not on doctrinal truth. "If it feels good for me, then that is all that matters", so they say. So where does an attitude like this lead them, but to differences of opinion, squabbling, and finally endless splitting of the Body of Christ.?

If you don't believe this to be the case, just look at the posts on this thread on on this entire Christianchat board over the years, on any subject.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
We claim to have Scripture as our basis for Christion truth. But, are we being honest in doing so? In reality, much of our ‘truth’ is based solely on personal opinions of men and women, and not on doctrinal truth. "If it feels good for me, then that is all that matters", so they say. So where does an attitude like this lead them, but to differences of opinion, squabbling, and finally endless splitting of the Body of Christ.?

If you don't believe this to be the case, just look at the posts on this thread on on this entire Christianchat board over the years, on any subject.
Yes, this is true. Sadly. Man has been inventing doctrine from day one. Jesus warned us that it is the case. But rather than hold fast to what has been handed down to us from Jesus to apostle to the Church many have thrown out the writings of those who were murdered for the faith because their letters arent scripture. While I agree scripture alone, I'm not willing to throw out how the ancients observed and understood scripture. So the tradition of the ancient martyrs still teach us.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,602
803
113
But we all disagree with each other as to the meaning of Scripture, the Old and New Testament. Whose interpretation of Scripture is authoritative?
The Holy Spirit's "interpretation", of course.

Jesus said HE was there to lead us into all truth ( John 14:16,17 - 1 John 2:27).

The only thing "HUMAN WISDOM" / "Theology" will ever produce is religious confusion.