Translation issue(s)?

I originally posted this as a comment, but it didn’t get any attention and it’s buried in a thread now. However, I’m very curious about this because I know there are people way more experienced with Greek than myself so I would love some feedback on this. Thank you!

In the New Testament the word for soul is sometimes translated to say life instead. Sometimes it’s even translated as heart or mind. (See Ephesians 6:6 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose heart and Philippians 1:27 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose mind.)

G5590 (BibleHub link)
psuché
Strong's Concordance

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

It’s used 104 times in the New Testament this way, often translated to say life rather than soul. The word for life (physical or spiritual) is something else and it’s G2222 (BibleHub link) in the Strong’s concordance.

Here are some random examples:

John 15:13 KJV
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Matthew 11:29 KJV
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Romans 11:3 KJV
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

1 Peter 3:20 KJV
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Any idea why they replaced the word for soul with life, or mind, or heart in the New Testament when there are already different words for life, heart, and mind in Greek that don’t actually refer to the soul? This isn’t just in the KJV, but most translations I’ve seen.

Before I’m 100% convinced on this that that most English Bibles are translated incorrectly, I really need to see if anyone can explain this for me. This isn’t a small thing. This could be one of the important translation issues for the church to be aware of.

If the word for soul was replaced with words like life, heart, or mind it changes this will dramatically change the way the Bible is interpreted.

Thank you for your time I look forward to some responses.

I originally posted this as a comment, but it didn’t get any attention and it’s buried in a thread now. However, I’m very curious about this because I know there are people way more experienced with Greek than myself so I would love some feedback on this. Thank you!

In the New Testament the word for soul is sometimes translated to say life instead. Sometimes it’s even translated as heart or mind. (See Ephesians 6:6 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose heart and Philippians 1:27 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose mind.)

G5590 (BibleHub link)
psuché
Strong's Concordance

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

It’s used 104 times in the New Testament this way, often translated to say life rather than soul. The word for life (physical or spiritual) is something else and it’s G2222 (BibleHub link) in the Strong’s concordance.

Here are some random examples:

John 15:13 KJV
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Matthew 11:29 KJV
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Romans 11:3 KJV
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

1 Peter 3:20 KJV
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Any idea why they replaced the word for soul with life, or mind, or heart in the New Testament when there are already different words for life, heart, and mind in Greek that don’t actually refer to the soul? This isn’t just in the KJV, but most translations I’ve seen.

Before I’m 100% convinced on this that that most English Bibles are translated incorrectly, I really need to see if anyone can explain this for me. This isn’t a small thing. This could be one of the important translation issues for the church to be aware of.

If the word for soul was replaced with words like life, heart, or mind it changes this will dramatically change the way the Bible is interpreted.

Thank you for your time I look forward to some responses.

If the word for soul was replaced with words like life, heart, or mind it changes this will dramatically change the way the Bible is interpreted.

I originally posted this as a comment, but it didn’t get any attention and it’s buried in a thread now. However, I’m very curious about this because I know there are people way more experienced with Greek than myself so I would love some feedback on this. Thank you!

In the New Testament the word for soul is sometimes translated to say life instead. Sometimes it’s even translated as heart or mind. (See Ephesians 6:6 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose heart and Philippians 1:27 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose mind.)

G5590 (BibleHub link)
psuché
Strong's Concordance

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

It’s used 104 times in the New Testament this way, often translated to say life rather than soul. The word for life (physical or spiritual) is something else and it’s G2222 (BibleHub link) in the Strong’s concordance.

Here are some random examples:

John 15:13 KJV
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Matthew 11:29 KJV
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Romans 11:3 KJV
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

1 Peter 3:20 KJV
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Any idea why they replaced the word for soul with life, or mind, or heart in the New Testament when there are already different words for life, heart, and mind in Greek that don’t actually refer to the soul? This isn’t just in the KJV, but most translations I’ve seen.

Before I’m 100% convinced on this that that most English Bibles are translated incorrectly, I really need to see if anyone can explain this for me. This isn’t a small thing. This could be one of the important translation issues for the church to be aware of.

If the word for soul was replaced with words like life, heart, or mind it changes this will dramatically change the way the Bible is interpreted.

Thank you for your time I look forward to some responses.

I originally posted this as a comment, but it didn’t get any attention and it’s buried in a thread now. However, I’m very curious about this because I know there are people way more experienced with Greek than myself so I would love some feedback on this. Thank you!

In the New Testament the word for soul is sometimes translated to say life instead. Sometimes it’s even translated as heart or mind. (See Ephesians 6:6 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose heart and Philippians 1:27 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose mind.)

G5590 (BibleHub link)
psuché
Strong's Concordance

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

It’s used 104 times in the New Testament this way, often translated to say life rather than soul. The word for life (physical or spiritual) is something else and it’s G2222 (BibleHub link) in the Strong’s concordance.

Here are some random examples:

John 15:13 KJV
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Matthew 11:29 KJV
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Romans 11:3 KJV
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

1 Peter 3:20 KJV
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Any idea why they replaced the word for soul with life, or mind, or heart in the New Testament when there are already different words for life, heart, and mind in Greek that don’t actually refer to the soul? This isn’t just in the KJV, but most translations I’ve seen.

Before I’m 100% convinced on this that that most English Bibles are translated incorrectly, I really need to see if anyone can explain this for me. This isn’t a small thing. This could be one of the important translation issues for the church to be aware of.

If the word for soul was replaced with words like life, heart, or mind it changes this will dramatically change the way the Bible is interpreted.

Thank you for your time I look forward to some responses.

The context around the word will determine what the word itself is meaning.

It does change the meaning alot though of verses in scripture.

Loss of vitality is very different to loss of life like death.

Losing the soul is different to losing life.

This affects doctrines of eternal security and assurance of salvation, where loss of vitality in life.. loss of blessings is meant rather than loss of the soul, spirit.

Also there is a difference between having a saved life and saved soul. Someone could get eternally saved and then not go after God after. Their life is not 'salvaged' for God.

But someone who does pursue Jesus after eternal life is given.. they have a saved life also.

Yes exactly. Seems like where the word for soul was used, based on their interpretation, they decided to use different words.

One of the examples I used:

John 15:13 KJV
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Here in John 15:13 the word life actually translate to breath, soul but they used life as if Jesus was referring to someone laying down their physical life.

Now look at a random example where an example of physical life is referenced:

Luke 12:25
15And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Life in Luke 12:25 literally means the physical or spiritual life. How is this supposed to be taken the same way as what John 15:13 says? I don’t see why they used life in both verses. That makes me think of physical life.

This could be one of the important translation issues for the church to be aware of.

I don't really know of any bibles without the influence of the background of the people who put it together.
The KJV is considered one of the most accurate English translations.

I agree with that.. but it does have the influence of the King of England at the time, in having words in there that allow Church of England teachings on what the church is to be kept. So King Jimmy had the word 'church' where older bibles were using 'congregation' or 'assembly' for the Greek word 'Ecclessia'. Congregation and assembly have inherent in them a localised, visible meaning. The word 'church' can have many different kinds of meanings.

Similar things would go for all translations, where original meanings have been distorted or replaced with other words that don't quite catch the full import of the original words.

The good news is that when the translations are accurate, trying to be literal translations.. the context around the words gives it the right meaning, that usually would support the original meaning from the original language.

Here’s another example that is a little more obvious to shows an inconsistency in the translation in my opinion: Matthew 16:25,26 KJV 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

There is no inconsistency here and you are unnecessarily creating a straw man and trying to bash translators at the same time. The "life" of person is indeed within the soul, and persons are called "souls" regularly. Therefore "eight souls were saved by water" is the same as "eight lives were saved by water" or "eight persons were saved by water". When the soul and spirit depart, a person is deemed to have died. How did Adam become a "living soul"? God breathed the breath of life into him. Otherwise he was simply clay.

Before I’m 100% convinced on this that that most English Bibles are translated incorrectly, I really need to see if anyone can explain this for me. This isn’t a small thing. This could be one of the important translation issues for the church to be aware of.



When reading the King James, try reading the Complete Jewish Bible with it. You may find them to support one another quite well.

I guess you are just curious about all of this, and I guess that is ok, however, to put forth that our King James Bible is NOT the Word of God is just something I will not accept. I wonder how people can believe God can create all there is/ever was, and NOT be able to protect His Word from being ruined with mistranslations.......

The Holy Bible is Truth! Folks wanna argue about this word and it's Greek/Hebrew/English meanings and such is all well and good, but how does it serve the Kingdom to seek to discredit the Holy Bible?

Good discussion

Just an observation but the term "soul" in English has also been used in a nautical sense to refer to lives.

"The ship went down with all souls lost at sea"

Which is also where SOS (save our souls) comes from, and in a more common English rendering means "save our lives" rather than something to the effect of "save our eternal souls"

If the word for soul was replaced with words like life, heart, or mind it changes this will dramatically change the way the Bible is interpreted.

Not at all. Soul is the part if life that is eternal. The heart and mind are different ways of expressing this same concept.

Okay so they’re the same concept. So rather than say life, heart, or mind can we just stick with the Greek word which says soul and interpret them with the word soul with no loss of meaning?

For example, if I were to say “greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s soul for one’s friends.” Would you agree?

Soul is the part if life that is eternal.

No. This is not referring to the eternal part of one's life.