"Father Forgive them...

GRACE_ambassador · Aug 10, 2022

Luk 23:33-34 "And when they were come to the place, which is called

Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the malefactors, one on the right

hand, and the other on the left. Then Said Jesus, Father, Forgive them;

for they know not what they do. And they parted His raiment, and cast lots."

"...In Luke 23:33 we read the stark reality of what the world, both Jews and
Gentiles, did to The LORD Jesus Christ, very God from eternity past to eternity
future. They took the sinless Son of God and crucified Him on a Roman cross
of execution!

Israel had looked for a “Moses” leader (Deut. 18:15-19) who would wield His
shepherd’s staff and get Israel released from Gentile bondage and servitude.
Moses told Pharaoh “let my people go!” And even though Pharaoh hesitated
and later regretted the act, Pharaoh let the nation of Israel go. We read about
this in the Old Testament, and how Israel looked for another who would be like
Moses and tell the Gentiles (Romans) let my people go!...
"
(J Harley)

FULL study:
Father Forgive them

GRACE And Peace...

Grandpa · Aug 11, 2022

Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

studentoftheword · Aug 11, 2022

Thread Title
"Father Forgive them...

This section below is taken from the article that is posted in OP---

I just picked this portion of the article to post as this is just someone adding their own thoughts to the Scriptures and wrongly dividing the Word ------this needs to be clarified so that the truth of the scripture can be known and to correct people being fed wrong Doctrine ------

FULL study:
Father Forgive them

That God the Father would give His only begotten Son to die upon the cruel cross for Israel’s sins, and the sins of the whole world, is hard to fathom, but He did Father forgive them for they know not what they do -----

What we read in verse 34 is almost harder to believe! “Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not what they do….” Jesus Christ prayed to His Heavenly Father to forgive the people of Israel of this crucifixion, because they did not understand the plan of God.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say

I read the article and picked this section as this is definitely NOT WHY Jesus said -----Father forgive them ------no where in scripture does it say that Jesus was praying to forgive the people of Israel of this crucifixion, because they did not understand the plan of God.

This is what the scripture actually says ------

Luke 23:34 NIV
34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing

No where does it say here that they did not understand the plan of God.

The Israelite's understood very well that Jesus was all about bringing in a New and Better Covenant ---and that Jesus was their Messiah ------Jesus made that very plain to them in His Preaching --teaching and miracles ---they refused to believe and accept it -----all Israelites were well versed in the Old testament Scriptures and knew and were well informed of God's Plan to come -----

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus when he said Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing-----was actually fulfilling an Old Testament Prophecy from Isaiah -----and the Israelites would have been well schooled on this Prophecy -------

This Prophecy was a prayer of Intercessory prayer ======Jesus was making a way for people to pray for the sins others -----by being an intercessor on behalf of another ------

Isaiah 53:12 AMP,CE

12 Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great [kings and rulers], and He shall divide the spoil with the mighty, because He poured out His life unto death, and [He let Himself] be regarded as a criminal and be numbered with the transgressors; yet He bore [and took away] the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors (the rebellious).

Read full chapter

i say
So we can see that Discernment is very much needed when we are reading articles or listening to Sermons that don't line up with God's Word -----we can be deceived very easily and be taken down a crooked road which leads to the wrong place ------We ourselves need to be very schooled in what the Scripture says so we can discern what is Truth and what is a lie-----

Be careful who you listen to and what you read -----False prophets are many in our world today ------

Discern the Spirits

Grandpa · Aug 12, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Thread Title
"Father Forgive them...

This section below is taken from the article that is posted in OP---

I just picked this portion of the article to post as this is just someone adding their own thoughts to the Scriptures and wrongly dividing the Word ------this needs to be clarified so that the truth of the scripture can be known and to correct people being fed wrong Doctrine ------

FULL study:
Father Forgive them

That God the Father would give His only begotten Son to die upon the cruel cross for Israel’s sins, and the sins of the whole world, is hard to fathom, but He did Father forgive them for they know not what they do -----

What we read in verse 34 is almost harder to believe! “Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not what they do….” Jesus Christ prayed to His Heavenly Father to forgive the people of Israel of this crucifixion, because they did not understand the plan of God.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say

I read the article and picked this section as this is definitely NOT WHY Jesus said -----Father forgive them ------no where in scripture does it say that Jesus was praying to forgive the people of Israel of this crucifixion, because they did not understand the plan of God.

This is what the scripture actually says ------

Luke 23:34 NIV
34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing

No where does it say here that they did not understand the plan of God.

The Israelite's understood very well that Jesus was all about bringing in a New and Better Covenant ---and that Jesus was their Messiah ------Jesus made that very plain to them in His Preaching --teaching and miracles ---they refused to believe and accept it -----all Israelites were well versed in the Old testament Scriptures and knew and were well informed of God's Plan to come -----

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus when he said Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing-----was actually fulfilling an Old Testament Prophecy from Isaiah -----and the Israelites would have been well schooled on this Prophecy -------

This Prophecy was a prayer of Intercessory prayer ======Jesus was making a way for people to pray for the sins others -----by being an intercessor on behalf of another ------

Isaiah 53:12 AMP,CE

12 Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great [kings and rulers], and He shall divide the spoil with the mighty, because He poured out His life unto death, and [He let Himself] be regarded as a criminal and be numbered with the transgressors; yet He bore [and took away] the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors (the rebellious).

Read full chapter

i say
So we can see that Discernment is very much needed when we are reading articles or listening to Sermons that don't line up with God's Word -----we can be deceived very easily and be taken down a crooked road which leads to the wrong place ------We ourselves need to be very schooled in what the Scripture says so we can discern what is Truth and what is a lie-----

Be careful who you listen to and what you read -----False prophets are many in our world today ------

Discern the Spirits

View attachment 242346

"They know not what they are doing."

The verse says they didn't understand the plan of God.

Even the disciples didn't understand the plan of God until the Lord Jesus came back and explained it to them.

p_rehbein · Aug 12, 2022

Verse 34:

John Gill said:

(excerpt)

for they know not what they do, or "are doing", meaning, in crucifying him, which was the case of many of them, and of their rulers; they did not know that Jesus was the Messiah, nor the prophecies concerning him, nor the evil they were committing in putting him to death: not that their ignorance excused their sin; nor was it without sin; nor does Christ use it as a plea for pardon, or found his intercession upon it, which is always done upon his own propitiatory sacrifice; but this is mentioned as descriptive of the persons Christ prays for, and points out a branch of his priestly office he exercises, in having compassion on the ignorant, and them that are out of the way;

(here)

Luke 23:34 - John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

studentoftheword · Aug 12, 2022

Grandpa said:

Show me where the verse says they didn't understand God's plan --------you can believe that --that is your choice -----I disagree -----I believe some were willfully ignorant of the consequences they were bring upon themselves -----

This is what it says -----Luke 23 ---no where in this scripture does it say they didn't know God's plan --all it says is Forgive them for they know not what they do -------there is nothing here that says anything about God's plan ---your surmising what the scripture is saying ---and that is dangerous ----

34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”[a] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

The Jews would have known God's Plan ---

The Romans who were the Gentiles would have been ignorant of the consequences they were bringing down upon themselves but they certainly know that they were crucifying an Innocent man -------

-They witnessed Jesus Preaching --- healing people ----working Miracles ------etc and refused on their own accord not to believe He was the Messiah -----

This part of the verse ----for they do not know what they are doing

---Jesus is innocent --they are crucifying an innocent man --Pilate said He was innocent -------and Jesus is praying for their forgiveness of their sin -------he is interceding on behalf of his enemies --which is fulfilling the Prophecy of Isaiah ------ we are to pray for our enemies ----that is a command of God ---

That is the Real Spiritual meaning of this Scripture ------it is not about not knowing God's plan -----it is about praying for your enemies -----

The People's Commentary
They know not what they do. . "He made intercession for transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12)

Barnes notes ---
Father, forgive them - This is a fulfillment of the prophecy in Isaiah 53:12; "He made intercession for the transgressors." The prayer was offered for those who were guilty of putting him to death. It is not quite certain whether he referred to the "Jews" or "to the Roman soldiers." Perhaps he referred to both.

GRACE_ambassador · Aug 12, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Precious friend, appreciate that you are a diligent 'student of the Word.'
Please advise what is the correct interpretation of the following Scriptures?:

1)

1Co_2:8 "Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had

they known it, they would not have crucified the LORD of Glory."

Are these 'princes':

a) Roman governors/kings/soldiers [that understand Scriptures]?
b) devil [knows Scripture?] and his demons?, or:
c) 'leaders' of Israel, that should 'have known/understood' Scripture?
d) other?

2)

a) Is it not true 'that ALL, in Israel, "who cried out for the crucifixion"
could be prayed for at the cross, And forgiven' on the basis of Jesus'
Teaching On The UNpardonable sin?:

Mat_12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son

of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh

against The Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither

in this world, neither in the world to come."

b) On the other hand, what about "ALL those in Israel" who
blasphemed [could not understand/neither cared about The Purpose
of God Through] "the Holy Spirit-Filled preaching of Stephen," in
Acts 7:55-60? Certainly Jesus "did NOT pray for them on the cross" did He?

3) How is it then, that these Israelites, At Pentecost, DID understand
[or 'did they'?] The Purpose Of God, and "murdered Him" anyway?
Interpret, please?:

Act 2:22=23

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a

Man Approved Of God among you by miracles and wonders

and signs, which God did by Him in the midst of you, as ye

yourselves also know:

Him, Being Delivered By The Determinate Counsel and Fore-

knowledge Of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have

crucified and slain" Jesus did NOT pray for them [of Israel]?

4) The other part of understanding 'God's Purpose' that is disturbing
is the only 'one gospel * doctrine' who tell [deceive us?] that all, 'in faith/understanding' in the OT "looked FORWARD" to the 'good news'
of "The Crucified/Buried/Resurrected Messiah Of Israel for salvation,"
and was ALWAYS

'the SAME' Gospel Of GRACE 'that Paul preached' [only NOW ''we look
BACKWARDS' to it]???

But, how is this possible when, those who "walked With Jesus for
three years, and did NOT Even understand" that 'He Was to die'?:
More interpretation, or just 'Plain And Clear'?:

Luk 18:31-34

"Then He took unto Him the twelve, and Said unto them, Behold,

we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the

prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

For He shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked,

and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge Him,

and put Him to death: and the third day he Shall rise again.

And they [TWELVE] understood NONE of these things: and this saying

was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."

[@grandpa is another diligent student that 'already pointed this out above?]

Conclusion:

1Co 2:7

"But we speak the Wisdom of God in A Mystery, even the Hidden

Wisdom, Which God Ordained before the world unto our glory:

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they

known it, they would not have crucified the LORD Of Glory."

So, how could '''leaders' of Israel, that should 'have known/understood'
Scripture, have Even known This Mystery, Because "It Was Hidden In God,"
Until He "Revealed It TO Paul, In Romans Through Philemon"?

Thus:

* Approval Unto God/TWO Different Gospels In prophecy AND Mystery!

GRACE And Peace...

studentoftheword · Aug 12, 2022

GRACE_ambassador ------your grasping at straws -------the scripture says nothing about what the article said it said here ------

This is what the ARTICLE SAID------Read the Article posted in OP -------this is the link ---
FULL study:
Father Forgive them----read it

FROM THE ARTICLE --------they wrote this

-What we read in verse 34 is almost harder to believe! “Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not what they do….” Jesus Christ prayed to His Heavenly Father to forgive the people of Israel of this crucifixion, because they did not understand the plan of God.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say

I challenge you or anyone -----------to shown me where it says -----in this scripture in LUKE 23 verses 34-35 where there is any mention of anyone not knowing God's plan -----where do you get that from in this scripture
-
---I await your answer

This is that real scripture ----LUKE 23 with verses 34-35

34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”[a] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One

studentoftheword · Aug 13, 2022

https://www.gotquestions.org/Father-forgive-them.html

Why did Jesus say “Father, forgive them” on the cross?

Jesus’ words “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing” are found in Luke 23:34. Jesus looked down from the cross upon a scene that must have been distressing to Him. The Roman soldiers were gambling for His clothing (John 19:23–24); the criminals on the crosses to either side of Him were reviling Him (Matthew 27:44); the religious leaders were mocking Him (Matthew 27:41–43); and the crowd was blaspheming Him (Matthew 27:39). Surrounded by this most unworthy lot, Jesus prayed for them. “Father, forgive them” is a prayer of unmatched mercy and love.

Even in His agony, Jesus’ concern was for the forgiveness of those who counted themselves among His enemies. He asked the Father to forgive the thieves on the cross who jeered at Him. He asked the Father to forgive the Roman soldiers who had mocked Him, spit on Him, beat Him, yanked out His beard, whipped Him, put a crown of thorns on His head, and nailed Him to the cross. Jesus asked forgiveness for the angry mob that had mocked Him and called for His crucifixion (Mark 15:29–30).

It is important to note that Jesus’ prayer, “Father, forgive them,” does not mean that everyone was forgiven, unilaterally, without repentance and faith.

It does mean that Jesus was willing to forgive them—forgiveness was, in fact, the reason He was on the cross. The words “Father, forgive them” show the merciful heart of God.

Jesus prayed, “Father, forgive them,” because He was fulfilling Old Testament prophecy: “He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors” (Isaiah 53:12). From the cross, Jesus interceded for sinners. Today, risen and glorified, Jesus remains the “one mediator between God and mankind” (1 Timothy 2:5). Jesus prayed, “Father, forgive them,” because He was putting into practice the principle He had taught in the Sermon on the Mount: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:43–44). Jesus, the persecuted, prayed for His persecutors.

Coupled with the willingness of Jesus to forgive His tormentors is the fact that they did not know what they were doing (Luke 23:34). The sinners who put Jesus on the cross were ignorant of the true import of their actions. The soldiers personally held no ill will toward Him. They were simply following orders. This was how they normally treated condemned men, and they believed that He truly deserved it. They didn’t know that they were killing the Son of God (see 1 Corinthians 2:8). The mob didn’t really know whom they were trying to destroy.

The Jewish leaders had deceived them into believing that Jesus was a fake and a troublemaker (Acts 3:17). In praying “Father, forgive them,” Jesus revealed His infinite mercy; He still loved them and would forgive them if only they would humble themselves and repent (Matthew 18:14; 2 Peter 3:9).

Jesus’ prayer “Father, forgive them” was answered in the lives of many people. The Roman centurion at the foot of the cross, upon seeing how Jesus died, exclaimed, “Surely this man was the Son of God!” (Mark 15:39). One of the two thieves crucified with Jesus exercised faith in Christ, who promised him paradise (Luke 23:39–43). A member of the Sanhedrin publicly aligned himself with Jesus (John 19:39). And, a little over a month later, three thousand people in Jerusalem were saved in one day as the church began (Acts 2:41).

On the cross Jesus provided forgiveness for all those who would ever believe in Him (Matthew 20:28). Jesus paid the penalty for the sins that we commit in our ignorance, and even the ones we’ve committed deliberately. When we are born again, we, too, become an answer to Jesus’ prayer “Father, forgive them.”

Grandpa · Aug 13, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Show me where the verse says they didn't understand God's plan --------you can believe that --that is your choice -----I disagree -----I believe some were willfully ignorant of the consequences they were bring upon themselves -----

This is what it says -----Luke 23 ---no where in this scripture does it say they didn't know God's plan --all it says is Forgive them for they know not what they do -------there is nothing here that says anything about God's plan ---your surmising what the scripture is saying ---and that is dangerous ----

34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”[a] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

The Jews would have known God's Plan ---

The Romans who were the Gentiles would have been ignorant of the consequences they were bringing down upon themselves but they certainly know that they were crucifying an Innocent man -------

-They witnessed Jesus Preaching --- healing people ----working Miracles ------etc and refused on their own accord not to believe He was the Messiah -----

This part of the verse ----for they do not know what they are doing

---Jesus is innocent --they are crucifying an innocent man --Pilate said He was innocent -------and Jesus is praying for their forgiveness of their sin -------he is interceding on behalf of his enemies --which is fulfilling the Prophecy of Isaiah ------ we are to pray for our enemies ----that is a command of God ---

That is the Real Spiritual meaning of this Scripture ------it is not about not knowing God's plan -----it is about praying for your enemies -----

The People's Commentary
They know not what they do. . "He made intercession for transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12)

Barnes notes ---
Father, forgive them - This is a fulfillment of the prophecy in Isaiah 53:12; "He made intercession for the transgressors." The prayer was offered for those who were guilty of putting him to death. It is not quite certain whether he referred to the "Jews" or "to the Roman soldiers." Perhaps he referred to both.

The crucifixion of Christ was Gods Plan.

The Lord is asking God to forgive them for the act of murdering Him.

So that they too can partake in the Salvation of the Lord. Which is Gods Plan. That the Jews didn't know. Many still don't know.

studentoftheword · Aug 14, 2022

Grandpa said:

think as you will -----have a blessed day ----

Grandpa · Aug 15, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Not much thinking has to happen for this.

It says it in Scripture. From the Lord Jesus Himself.

Father forgive them for they know NOT what they do.

You are correct as well. The Lord is making intercessory prayer for the transgressors. That's not just Romans who did the deed and Jews who were responsible. That is everyone, throughout history, that would require intercessory prayer because of what is required in order to approach God.

p_rehbein · Aug 15, 2022

Who crucified Jesus?

I did....sadly

GRACE_ambassador · Aug 15, 2022

op: "Father Forgive them, they know NOT what they do"?

Bible study is now "grasping at straws"?:

From another study by P Sadler:

"...The strong bulls of Bashan undoubtedly refer to the religious
leaders in Israel, who sought to gore The LORD with their horns
of hate (Luke 23:8-21). Like the beast of the field that taunts it
prey before killing it, these wicked leaders scoffed:

“He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He be the

King of Israel, let Him now come down from the Cross,

and we will believe Him. He trusted in God; let Him deliver

Him now, if He will have Him: for He said, I AM The Son of God”

(Matt. 27:42,43).

Thankfully, the Savior remained upon the Cross, for had He come down
the world would have been swept into the lake of fire for ever to satisfy
the Holiness and Justice of God. Christ never wavered in His Resolve To
Complete The Work Of Redemption.

The above clearly shows that these religious leaders were not only
ignorant of The Prediction of the Cross, they also had no comprehension
whatsoever of The Significance of Calvary..."
More:

Christ And Him Crucified:

The Prediction Of The Cross
The Teaching Of The Cross
The Preaching Of The Cross

GRACE And Peace...

oyster67 · Aug 15, 2022

"Father Forgive them...

It is likely that some present did not realize that Jesus was God until after the fact.

Luke 23:34

“Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.”

The appointed time to repent and receive Jesus into one's heart comes for every man.

Evmur · Aug 16, 2022

GRACE_ambassador said:

Luk 23:33-34 "And when they were come to the place, which is called

Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the malefactors, one on the right

hand, and the other on the left. Then Said Jesus, Father, Forgive them;

for they know not what they do. And they parted His raiment, and cast lots."

"...In Luke 23:33 we read the stark reality of what the world, both Jews and
Gentiles, did to The LORD Jesus Christ, very God from eternity past to eternity
future. They took the sinless Son of God and crucified Him on a Roman cross
of execution!

Israel had looked for a “Moses” leader (Deut. 18:15-19) who would wield His
shepherd’s staff and get Israel released from Gentile bondage and servitude.
Moses told Pharaoh “let my people go!” And even though Pharaoh hesitated
and later regretted the act, Pharaoh let the nation of Israel go. We read about
this in the Old Testament, and how Israel looked for another who would be like
Moses and tell the Gentiles (Romans) let my people go!...
"
(J Harley)

FULL study:
Father Forgive them

View attachment 242331

GRACE And Peace...

I have always understood this was for the Romans, the Jews knew they acting sinfully. [The leaders by then knew He was Christ]

Search

"Father Forgive them...

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