Could you have a false prophet for a Pastor?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#121
Jul 7, 2022
10,606
4,533
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#121
Rich Man,

They are probably not all doing the same, but While looking for materials to stock my library I have seen plenty of reference books, sermon outlines from various book sales and Sunday school materials. I've gone over the religion section with a fine toothed comb of enough denominational pastoral materials to get an idea that there's a common format amongst certain denominations. There are service formats laid out complete with texts and written prayers. Many take little more than to fill in the blanks. Most Catholics in the pews know this. They are even given their own pew copy of the missals. Their priests get one with more details. It's not rocket surgery.

Another reason is that I have had personal and social conversations with pastors from a handful of denominations who I've met at Bible studies, meetings and social events. Believe it or not, guys in ministries sometimes talk shop.

When traveling from town to town, anyone can read the marquis sermon titles. Often they will be the same among the same denominational churches, or fellowship.
These are either improbable coincidences, or the pastors chose the same sermon from the list to preach that week. While searching stacks of christian materials for specific books for my library, i've read a number of sermon lists to choose from, complete with optional illustrations. Sometimes the same publisher provides the same Sunday school materials for DIFFERENT denominations.

The RC priests get theirs from their particular uniform sources too. There's a reason that you can travel from state to state, country to country and their services may have a different flavor, but they are essentially uniform.

If your denomination does not do that, fine. I have no argument with those from various faiths. If it does, I have no argument either.
People are welcome to choose to do things however they want to. I cannot see a verse that states that it is a sin to preach a good sermon someone else has already preached. There's no new thing under the sun. However, I wish that everyone would follow the Bible as Bereans and that all of their ministers were believers in Christ and His complete sacrifice.
This leads to my last answer...

Why do I think the hierarchy of many denominations are lost?
I've asked the fruit of their assemblies....their people. I've read sermons and Sunday school materials that contained false gospels. I've heard lots of sermons from lots of preachers and priests that had misled their audiences to believe false gospels.

Galatians 1 plus a hundred other solid gospel absolutes explain this. I hope you agree.

  1. "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
  2. 2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
  3. 3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
  4. 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
  5. 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
  6. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
  7. 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
  8. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
  9. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
  10. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
  11. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
  12. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Amen
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#122
#122
HealthAndHappiness said:
Rich Man,

They are probably not all doing the same, but While looking for materials to stock my library I have seen plenty of reference books, sermon outlines from various book sales and Sunday school materials. I've gone over the religion section with a fine toothed comb of enough denominational pastoral materials to get an idea that there's a common format amongst certain denominations. There are service formats laid out complete with texts and written prayers. Many take little more than to fill in the blanks. Most Catholics in the pews know this. They are even given their own pew copy of the missals. Their priests get one with more details. It's not rocket surgery.

Another reason is that I have had personal and social conversations with pastors from a handful of denominations who I've met at Bible studies, meetings and social events. Believe it or not, guys in ministries sometimes talk shop.

When traveling from town to town, anyone can read the marquis sermon titles. Often they will be the same among the same denominational churches, or fellowship.
These are either improbable coincidences, or the pastors chose the same sermon from the list to preach that week. While searching stacks of christian materials for specific books for my library, i've read a number of sermon lists to choose from, complete with optional illustrations. Sometimes the same publisher provides the same Sunday school materials for DIFFERENT denominations.

The RC priests get theirs from their particular uniform sources too. There's a reason that you can travel from state to state, country to country and their services may have a different flavor, but they are essentially uniform.

If your denomination does not do that, fine. I have no argument with those from various faiths. If it does, I have no argument either.
People are welcome to choose to do things however they want to. I cannot see a verse that states that it is a sin to preach a good sermon someone else has already preached. There's no new thing under the sun. However, I wish that everyone would follow the Bible as Bereans and that all of their ministers were believers in Christ and His complete sacrifice.
This leads to my last answer...

Why do I think the hierarchy of many denominations are lost?
I've asked the fruit of their assemblies....their people. I've read sermons and Sunday school materials that contained false gospels. I've heard lots of sermons from lots of preachers and priests that had misled their audiences to believe false gospels.

Galatians 1 plus a hundred other solid gospel absolutes explain this. I hope you agree.

  1. "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
  2. 2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
  3. 3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
  4. 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
  5. 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
  6. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
  7. 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
  8. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
  9. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
  10. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
  11. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
  12. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Amen
Click to expand...
Your original post included ALL.
Like so many, you want to judge ALL guilty of what only a few MAY be guilty of.
People that do this very quickly lose all credibility. If you can not offer proof, it is not worthy of considering.
You offered no proof.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#123
Jul 7, 2022
10,606
4,533
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#123
RichMan said:
Your original post included ALL.
Like so many, you want to judge ALL guilty of what only a few MAY be guilty of.
People that do this very quickly lose all credibility. If you can not offer proof, it is not worthy of considering.
You offered no proof.
Click to expand...
No, actually I said 'mainstream' as a general statement. THEN I said "All that they have to do is to fill in the blanks with a personal illustration..."
That ALL refers to the missals and manuals, and what they need to do...." FILL IN THE BLANKS."

First :I was Not talking to you Rich man.
I was speaking to Gb9.

Second:. In spite of your interruption, I took time to respectfully provide you with the reasons that I had for my statement to GB9.

Third:. You can take the time to look up the information the same way that I did. I even told you how. If you are that concerned, then you can do that on your clock. I already spent untold hours of my life to satisfy my own concerns. Judging from your tone, I suppose that if I had purchased a copy retroactively just to satisfy the demands of any future detractors, and sent them the books or pictures of the books, they would still be offended and implacable.

Forth:. The False prophets within some of the denominations and without are those who have the credibility problem, Not I.
They are those that Galatians 1 warns about.
My gospel is clear and Biblical.

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
Colossians 2
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#124
#124
HealthAndHappiness said:
No, actually I said 'mainstream' as a general statement. THEN I said "All that they have to do is to fill in the blanks with a personal illustration..."
That ALL refers to the missals and manuals, and what they need to do...." FILL IN THE BLANKS."

First :I was Not talking to you Rich man.
I was speaking to Gb9.

Second:. In spite of your interruption, I took time to respectfully provide you with the reasons that I had for my statement to GB9.

Third:. You can take the time to look up the information the same way that I did. I even told you how. If you are that concerned, then you can do that on your clock. I already spent untold hours of my life to satisfy my own concerns. Judging from your tone, I suppose that if I had purchased a copy retroactively just to satisfy the demands of any future detractors, and sent them the books or pictures of the books, they would still be offended and implacable.

Forth:. The False prophets within some of the denominations and without are those who have the credibility problem, Not I.
They are those that Galatians 1 warns about.
My gospel is clear and Biblical.

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
Colossians 2
Click to expand...
This is an open forum. What you post is seen by all. If you make a statement that some see as false or misleading you can expect a response.
It would be wise to only speak of those people, groups, churches you know from personal experience and be ready to offer evidence as proof.
I would expect your personal experience is very limited when compared to the total.
Don't mean to offend, but your original post is misleading in my opinion.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#125
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#125
Thewatchman said:
Ezekiel 13.​

Could there be false Pastors & Teachers in your Church?​



We are going to let the different versions of the Bible do the explaining.

We are going to start with Ezekiel 13: verses 1-9

Verse 1.

New Living Translation
Then this message came to me from the LORD:
Berean Study Bible
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
King James Bible
And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,


God is talking to Ezekiel and Ezekiel is writing it down word for word for us. So lets see just what God has to say here.



Verse 2.

New Living Translation
“Son of man, prophesy against the false prophets of Israel who are inventing their own prophecies. Say to them, ‘Listen to the word of the LORD.
Berean Study Bible
“Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Tell those who prophesy out of their own imagination: Hear the word of the LORD!
King James Bible
Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;



Verse 3.

New Living Translation
“Son of man, prophesy against the false prophets of Israel who are inventing their own prophecies. Say to them, ‘Listen to the word of the LORD.
Berean Study Bible
“Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Tell those who prophesy out of their own imagination: Hear the word of the LORD!
King James Bible
Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;


Cross References


Jeremiah 23:1
"Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!" declares the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:16
This is what the LORD of Hosts says: "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are filling you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:28
Let the prophet who has a dream retell it, but let him who has My word speak it truthfully. For what is straw compared to grain?" declares the LORD.


Verse 4.

New Living Translation
“O people of Israel, these prophets of yours are like jackals digging in the ruins.
Berean Study Bible
Your prophets, O Israel, are like foxes among the ruins.
King James Bible
O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.



Cross Reference

Song of Solomon 2:15
Catch for us the foxes--the little foxes that ruin the vineyards--for our vineyards are in bloom.



These prophets are not Good prophets



Verse 5

New Living Translation
They have done nothing to repair the breaks in the walls around the nation. They have not helped it to stand firm in battle on the day of the LORD.
Berean Study Bible
You did not go up to the gaps or restore the wall around the house of Israel so that it would stand in the battle on the Day of the LORD.
King James Bible
Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.



Cross References

Isaiah 13:6
Wail, for the Day of the LORD is near; it will come as destruction from the Almighty.
Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming--cruel, with fury and burning anger--to make the earth a desolation and to destroy the sinners within it.



Verse 6

New Living Translation
Instead, they have told lies and made false predictions. They say, ‘This message is from the LORD,’ even though the LORD never sent them. And yet they expect him to fulfill their prophecies!
Berean Study Bible
They see false visions and speak lying divinations. They claim, ‘Thus declares the LORD,’ when the LORD did not send them; yet they wait for the fulfillment of their message.
King James Bible
They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.



God is using some very harsh words here, you would do well to pay close attention to Him.



Verse 7.

New Living Translation
Can your visions be anything but false if you claim, ‘This message is from the LORD,’ when I have not even spoken to you?
Berean Study Bible
Haven’t you seen a false vision and spoken a lying divination when you proclaim, ‘Thus declares the LORD,’ even though I have not spoken?
King James Bible
Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?


Cross References

Isaiah 30:10
They say to the seers, "Stop seeing visions!" and to the prophets, "Do not prophesy to us the truth! Speak to us pleasant words; prophesy illusions.

Ezekiel 22:28
Her prophets whitewash these deeds by false visions and lying divinations, saying, 'This is what the Lord GOD says,' when the LORD has not spoken.



Verse 8.

New Living Translation
“Therefore, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because what you say is false and your visions are a lie, I will stand against you, says the Sovereign LORD.
Berean Study Bible
Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: Because you have uttered vain words and seen false visions, I am against you, declares the Lord GOD.
King James Bible
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.



Cross References
1 Kings 13:18
Then the prophet replied, "I too am a prophet like you, and an angel spoke to me by the word of the LORD, saying, 'Bring him back with you to your house, so that he may eat bread and drink water.'" The old prophet was lying to him,
Jeremiah 21:13
Behold, I am against you who dwell above the valley, atop the rocky plateau--declares the LORD--you who say, "Who can come against us? Who can enter our dwellings?"
Jeremiah 23:30
"Therefore behold," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who steal from one another words they attribute to Me."



Verse 9.

New Living Translation
I will raise my fist against all the prophets who see false visions and make lying predictions, and they will be banished from the community of Israel. I will blot their names from Israel’s record books, and they will never again set foot in their own land. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.
Berean Study Bible
My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and speak lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of My people or be recorded in the register of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord GOD.
King James Bible
And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.



Cross Reference

Jeremiah 17:13
O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who abandon You will be put to shame. All who turn away will be written in the dust, for they have abandoned the LORD, the fountain of living water.
Click to expand...
It seems like a false prophet is someone who is not a prophet at all, but is using the title for ulterior motives.

Question, do you think a real prophet can make a mistake and say something inaccurate?
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#126
#126
Thewatchman said:
Thumbs up and thank you for the trust you put in me to “judge”; But it is Gods place to do the judging. That does not mean we have to turn a blind eye to things. God has given us His spirit and we do have the right to discern right from wrong, good from evil truth from fiction, The list that goes on and on.
Click to expand...
Jesus used the word church twice in the gospels. The first time, he expected the believers to judge the brethren in the church and if the brother in the wrong did not comply, then Jesus said to treat him as though he was a heathen.

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Jesus also used the term church saying the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Paul was really the apostle who dealt with doctrine.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

The above verses are saying that those in the church are required to judge all brethren in the church.
But only God and God alone judges the world. that is those that are without. (the church)

Again Paul is stating the same thing here.

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
1Co 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

But he is hitting them very hard when telling the brethren in the church to give authority to the least of the brethren in the church, meaning the lowest brethren, those who know the least, for all in the church are required to judge their own brethren.

John in 1st John said the same thing.

2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The church in the 1st century was expected to do much greater things than Jesus ever did, because of the gift of the Holy Spirit given to them with power, from God.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jesus told his disciples ahead of time that they would bind and loose both on earth and in heaven. In other words they were able to determine who would ascend into heaven and who would go to hell.

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

All these powers were given to the church in the 1st Century. So Paul could look ahead and tell them that after their rapture they would be judging the world and even judging angels.

The saints who came with Jesus in Revelations 19 when he came on his white horse was his bride, the church.
Also the saints who Jesus spoke about in Revelations 20 who were beheaded for his sake and who rules with him for 1000 years and who were in the 1st resurrection are now ruling with him in heaven.

That is why Paul could say this:
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Jesus also said this to the church:
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

I don't expect you to assimilate most of what I have said, but at least you will know what I believe.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#127
#127
Runningman said:
It seems like a false prophet is someone who is not a prophet at all, but is using the title for ulterior motives.

Question, do you think a real prophet can make a mistake and say something inaccurate?
Click to expand...

For our last days, God removed many things from the land and one of them is prophets.
Our last days is the only generation that has the complete bible (word of God) from beginning to end (nothing to be added and nothing to be taken away from it.)

God has said everything that needs to be said and there is nothing else except for what is in the bible.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Anointing is the Holy Spirit of God.

The Apostle Paul added many things to the bible because the bible was not complete and it was Jesus Christ who called him to do so. (Therefore the teachings that he did was completely new for the 2nd Covenant, things that were indicated in the Old Testament would come.)

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The book of Revelation is for us in these last days detailing exactly what God has purposed for us and it is said explicitly and does not need any man to corrupt it for us.

But to be sure it can never, never, ever be acquired without the Spirit of God, the anointing that he has given to us, revealing it to us.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#128
#128
P.S. God is perfect and complete and does things perfectly.
After he drove man out of the garden of Eden, he made sure they (natural man) could not access the tree of life by placing flaming swords around that tree.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#129
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#129
pablocito said:
For our last days, God removed many things from the land and one of them is prophets.
Our last days is the only generation that has the complete bible (word of God) from beginning to end (nothing to be added and nothing to be taken away from it.)

God has said everything that needs to be said and there is nothing else except for what is in the bible.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Anointing is the Holy Spirit of God.

The Apostle Paul added many things to the bible because the bible was not complete and it was Jesus Christ who called him to do so. (Therefore the teachings that he did was completely new for the 2nd Covenant, things that were indicated in the Old Testament would come.)

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The book of Revelation is for us in these last days detailing exactly what God has purposed for us and it is said explicitly and does not need any man to corrupt it for us.

But to be sure it can never, never, ever be acquired without the Spirit of God, the anointing that he has given to us, revealing it to us.
Click to expand...
My perspective is the spiritual gifts haven’t ended. I have my experiences and I know that isn’t the same as you experiencing them, but they’re real to me and God has proven it. God has plenty to say. I guess if we see differently on this then I understand why you replied the way you did. Perhaps someone else who believes in the prophetic gift still being in effect can answer.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#130
#130
Runningman said:
My perspective is the spiritual gifts haven’t ended. I have my experiences and I know that isn’t the same as you experiencing them, but they’re real to me and God has proven it. God has plenty to say. I guess if we see differently on this then I understand why you replied the way you did. Perhaps someone else who believes in the prophetic gift still being in effect can answer.
Click to expand...

I am not sure what you call the spiritual gifts, but the fruits of the spirit are inherent in all people of God from Adam to the end of the world.
If you are talking spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues, then those were given to the church in the 1st Century; in fact the disciples had to wait for it before they could even open their mouths to speak one word about God. Acts 1:2 tells how this was done.

I agree with you 100%, because God has given every man woman and child their own load to carry. Yours is not mine and mine is not yours.
God is not only sovereign over all but is infinite where the 8 billion people on this earth are directed in 8 billion different ways according to his purpose.

So, I was only sharing what was my experience with God, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#131
Jun 24, 2020
1,618
810
113
#131
Runningman said:
My perspective is the spiritual gifts haven’t ended. I have my experiences and I know that isn’t the same as you experiencing them, but they’re real to me and God has proven it. God has plenty to say. I guess if we see differently on this then I understand why you replied the way you did. Perhaps someone else who believes in the prophetic gift still being in effect can answer.
Click to expand...
Since being "Baptized in the Spirit" (to use AG vernacular) back in '73, I've been burdened quite a few times to Interpret tongues, and occasionally to give prophetic utterance. NEVER, however, to speak a "message in tongues" in a meeting. I speak in tongues privately (1 cor 14:4).

All the "utterance gifts" work the same - the Holy Spirit moves words into your mind, and you just speak them as they flow in, and when they stop, so do you (hopefully).

So "Tongues", "Interpretation of Tongues", "Word of Wisdom", "Word of Knowledge", and "Prophesy" are essentially different variations of the same "Gifting".

The more practical effect of the experience, however was an immediate calling to teach Bible in small groups, which wouldn't have been possible for me to do - before. But God would "Preload me" with what I was supposed to present the night before, and then I'd just go and do it for a few hours every week for over a decade.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#132
#132
Bob-Carabbio said:
Since being "Baptized in the Spirit" (to use AG vernacular) back in '73, I've been burdened quite a few times to Interpret tongues, and occasionally to give prophetic utterance. NEVER, however, to speak a "message in tongues" in a meeting. I speak in tongues privately (1 cor 14:4).

All the "utterance gifts" work the same - the Holy Spirit moves words into your mind, and you just speak them as they flow in, and when they stop, so do you (hopefully).

So "Tongues", "Interpretation of Tongues", "Word of Wisdom", "Word of Knowledge", and "Prophesy" are essentially different variations of the same "Gifting".

The more practical effect of the experience, however was an immediate calling to teach Bible in small groups, which wouldn't have been possible for me to do - before. But God would "Preload me" with what I was supposed to present the night before, and then I'd just go and do it for a few hours every week for over a decade.
Click to expand...

The original use of tongues in the bible were to spread the gospel to gentiles starting from Jerusalem to the uttermost part of the world.

The details of the the 2nd covenant were completely new and was not recorded in any place and on the day of Pentecost scores of people were gathered in Jerusalem that spoke scores of languages from all around the world.
These converts would take the gospel back to their land speaking in whatever language was appropriate. The Apostles spoke in many languages, the gift of God to them, in order to facilitate the spreading of the gospel.

Remember there was absolutely no scrolls or written material with this new covenant, and thus God enabled the spreading in this way - the gift of tongues.

To us today we do not use this method because the bible has been recorded in all languages for each person's understanding.

Paul did speak about speaking in a spiritual tongue that would be interpreted by a prophet. But he said he would rather speak 1000 words in his normal tongue than speak one word in that other spiritual tongue.

We have to be very, very careful because, Moses put a serpent on a pole and anyone who was bitten by a fiery serpent, who looked up at the serpent on the pole would live.

This is God sending wicked and evil people of Israel a delusion where they would believe a lie and would eventually be destroyed.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Hezekiah a good king destroyed the serpent on the pole when he came into power as the people were all worshiping it.

God gives us exactly what we ask for.

The first of the 10 commandments state that thou shall not make any likeness of anything above, or on the earth, or below the earth or sea.

No true child of God in Moses's day would be bitten by a fiery serpent for he is protected by God, only those who heart were filled with thoughts of the flesh pots of Egypt and the like.

Likewise speaking to God in tongues which you do not understand only for the thrill of experiencing God is not a good idea. The bible is so deep it is going to take the wisdom of God within you to understand the things which were hidden from the children of Israel from the beginning to the world.

Again I am not teaching anything but giving my own experience with God and you too should have your own experience with God and if speaking in tongues does the job for you, then God will guide you into that pathway for your own satisfaction.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#133
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#133
Bob-Carabbio said:
Since being "Baptized in the Spirit" (to use AG vernacular) back in '73, I've been burdened quite a few times to Interpret tongues, and occasionally to give prophetic utterance. NEVER, however, to speak a "message in tongues" in a meeting. I speak in tongues privately (1 cor 14:4).

All the "utterance gifts" work the same - the Holy Spirit moves words into your mind, and you just speak them as they flow in, and when they stop, so do you (hopefully).

So "Tongues", "Interpretation of Tongues", "Word of Wisdom", "Word of Knowledge", and "Prophesy" are essentially different variations of the same "Gifting".

The more practical effect of the experience, however was an immediate calling to teach Bible in small groups, which wouldn't have been possible for me to do - before. But God would "Preload me" with what I was supposed to present the night before, and then I'd just go and do it for a few hours every week for over a decade.
Click to expand...
When you taught bible would you skip around showing different things at different times or were you more methodical showing each step in Gods Plan of Salvation?

Not that there are steps to Salvation. That is probably wrong wording. I suppose it would be more like growing a plant or a tree. Farming analogies are probably more common and accurate.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#134
#134
Grandpa said:
When you taught bible would you skip around showing different things at different times or were you more methodical showing each step in Gods Plan of Salvation?

Not that there are steps to Salvation. That is probably wrong wording. I suppose it would be more like growing a plant or a tree. Farming analogies are probably more common and accurate.
Click to expand...

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If a car or even a computer is missing a simple part, oftentimes it will not work. for example if I pulled out a spark plug the car would not function properly. Or in a computer if I am not familiar or do not know the user-interface, I will not be able to access it's features or it's functions.

The bible has one objective only, the salvation of man. It is a complete system, O.T. to N.T. and every word, is essential for complete understanding.

The plan of salvation started in the garden of Eden and is no different from the salvation that we have today.

The only difference is that today we have the complete plan in our hands, nothing missing and thus need no prophets or leaders like Moses etc.

The bible fits together like a large jigsaw puzzle, if one or two individual pieces are missing, we could still see the big plan.
We are blind when we start the puzzle but when we finish the complete puzzle we will be able to see everything aright, without any guessing.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#135
Jun 24, 2020
1,618
810
113
#135
Grandpa said:
When you taught bible would you skip around showing different things at different times or were you more methodical showing each step in Gods Plan of Salvation?

Not that there are steps to Salvation. That is probably wrong wording. I suppose it would be more like growing a plant or a tree. Farming analogies are probably more common and accurate.
Click to expand...
A Shared what I was given. Since the folks in the studies were "United Church of Christ", and "Roman Catholics", they had little knowledge of what the Bible was all about to begin with, so the subject matter varied week by week.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#136
Jun 24, 2020
1,618
810
113
#136
pablocito said:
The original use of tongues in the bible were to spread the gospel to gentiles starting from Jerusalem to the uttermost part of the world.
There's NO biblical evidence that "Tongues" were EVER used to "spread the Gospel". Peter spoke in the common tongue, so your central argument is IGNORED.

Paul did speak about speaking in a spiritual tongue that would be interpreted by a prophet. [/quote}

Wrong again, an utterance in TONGUES, is followed (normally) by one burdened with the Gift of "Interpretation of Tongues" The gift of "Prophesy" doesn't require "Tongues to be spoken".

But he said he would rather speak 1000 words in his normal tongue than speak one word in that other spiritual tongue.
Click to expand...
Which makes perfect sense, obviously much more efficient when you're addressing a gathering. when you speak their language, information is disseminated.

We have to be very, very careful because, Moses put a serpent on a pole and anyone who was bitten by a fiery serpent, who looked up at the serpent on the pole would live.

This is God sending wicked and evil people of Israel a delusion where they would believe a lie and would eventually be destroyed.
Click to expand...
TOTALLY FALSE. The "Brazen serpent" is a PRECURSER of Jesus on the Cross, LOADED with our SIN in God's sight. It's an "Antitype" of a later event.

Hezekiah a good king destroyed the serpent on the pole when he came into power as the people were all worshiping it.
Click to expand...
TRUE - the object had become an "Idol" that the people worshipped in their spiritual ignorance. Still goes on today, with different "Idols".

No true child of God in Moses's day would be bitten by a fiery serpent for he is protected by God, only those who heart were filled with thoughts of the flesh pots of Egypt and the like.
Click to expand...
Imaginative, but really nothing but BS.

Likewise speaking to God in tongues which you do not understand only for the thrill of experiencing God is not a good idea.
Click to expand...
Which demonstrates your TOTAL IGNORANCE of the gifts, and their operation. 1 Cor 14 indicates that speaking in tongues IS "EDIFYING" to the one doing it. You have to tell us why being Spiritually EDIFIED is a "bad thing".

Why is speaking words that the HOLY SPIRIT GIVES YOU a BAD THING???? We'll be waiting for your answer.

Again I am not teaching anything
Click to expand...
Disingenuous!!!! You're TEACHING Cessationism loud and clear for all of us to see.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
T

Thewatchman

Active member
#137
Jun 19, 2021
622
116
43
#137
Runningman said:
It seems like a false prophet is someone who is not a prophet at all, but is using the title for ulterior motives.

Question, do you think a real prophet can make a mistake and say something inaccurate?
Click to expand...
A real prophet does not make a mistake. They either write or speak exactily what God tells them. If we held a prophet today to the stndards of the old testament there would be more than a few dead "prophets"
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#138
#138
Bob-Carabbio said:
A Shared what I was given. Since the folks in the studies were "United Church of Christ", and "Roman Catholics", they had little knowledge of what the Bible was all about to begin with, so the subject matter varied week by week.
Click to expand...

I would not dare teach the bible in this age. In fact the bible warns us about being teachers as they will suffer the greater judgment.
I covet knowledge; but the more I learn it seems like the less I know.

If you taught a false doctrine 20 years ago or even 50 years ago, that many people embraced, most of whom you never saw again, then upgraded your belief to your new understanding, what are the repercussions concerning those who learned your teaching perfectly and even disseminated it to others.

Many pastors in a church are stuck in that church even when they know that the teachings they teach are wrong. One reason is their pride, they cannot go back on what they have taught for years. It would reduce their credibility to zero. Others who have a good position and a good paycheck, are torn between giving up everything in order to come right with their conscience or to continue to enjoy the perks and remuneration of their position.

When God sends someone, his word will not return void to him.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#139
#139
pablocito said:
I would not dare teach the bible in this age. In fact the bible warns us about being teachers as they will suffer the greater judgment.
I covet knowledge; but the more I learn it seems like the less I know.

If you taught a false doctrine 20 years ago or even 50 years ago, that many people embraced, most of whom you never saw again, then upgraded your belief to your new understanding, what are the repercussions concerning those who learned your teaching perfectly and even disseminated it to others.

Many pastors in a church are stuck in that church even when they know that the teachings they teach are wrong. One reason is their pride, they cannot go back on what they have taught for years. It would reduce their credibility to zero. Others who have a good position and a good paycheck, are torn between giving up everything in order to come right with their conscience or to continue to enjoy the perks and remuneration of their position.

When God sends someone, his word will not return void to him.
Click to expand...

I will just answer the first part of your reply with the bible.

By the way the bible does not hold our hands and lead us step by step through things; in fact it does the opposite.

Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

This means that every nation on the earth was represented in Jerusalem at the appointed time of God's gift of the Holy Ghost to his appointed apostles and disciples.

Bible prophecy in the old testament tells us that the Jews were scattered throughout the entire world by God. Also all men from all countries from all places in the world were commanded to come to Jerusalem at the appointed time. (Of course they were accustomed to come to Jerusalem normally once a year for the feasts)

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The gift of the Holy Ghost included - speaking in tongues in another language. These were the Jewish disciples who would carry the gospel to the uttermost parts of the earth.

Jesus himself said that salvation is of the Jews to the woman at the well.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

At first 3000 were saved, later on 4000 were saved within a very short period of time.

Act_8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death (Stephen). And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Act_8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Act_11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

I could show many other verses but I am sure you will make up your mind either way.

Remember Old Testament Jews were living in every country of the then known world, because God had punished them.

God's ways are past finding out.

Remember when God scatters, as in Tower of Babel, no one could understand anyone else. The Jews who were scattered were born in foreign countries and as we can see many only knew their own language which was a foreign language that they were born under, and as on the day of Pentecost, some who did not understand the other languages were saying that they were probably drunk.

God's ways again are past finding out. But many who heard their own foreign language were amazed.

Again I do not debate the bible because it is usually against unbelievers who do not respect or honor God, but bring their own man-made intelligence to the bible.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#140
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#140
Thewatchman said:
A real prophet does not make a mistake. They either write or speak exactily what God tells them. If we held a prophet today to the stndards of the old testament there would be more than a few dead "prophets"
Click to expand...
Yes, but it’s actually not as simple as that. There are deceiving spirits and doctrines from demons. How do you think demons get their doctrines out into the world? They whisper in a prophet’s ear, so to speak, and he or she may have thought it was a message from God. Whoopsie daisy. It’s necessary to know the voice of God. This comes through relationship and experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.