The Hostility Between Men & Women

That's right:

1. Adam and Eve sinned which caused the Fall.

2. The Fall caused Creation to be corrupted by the Curse.

3. God spoke out (or made known) the curse and how it would work to the serpent, Adam, and Eve,

4. The Fall brought the Carnal Nature.

5. The Curse brought the Wall of Hostility.

6. God brought the Wall of Division (ie. the wall that prevents men and women from understanding each other so that they are unable to truly harm and destroy each other). This particlar wall, unlike the Wall of Hostility, doesn't cause conflict: it diffuses conflict.

Everything but the Wall of Division is destructive and not from God. The Wall of Division is constructive and is from God.

That whole conflict wall thing you have going on isn't Scriptural..

Think about it. The 10 commandments now. The first 5 commandments are all God-facing, and the last 5 are all man-facing. How we are to be towards God and one another. It's why the law can be summed up into 2 simple commands, Love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. God facing and man facing.

Now why on earth do a bunch of people need to be told silly things like don't commit murder and don't bear false witness?

because of the fall. There's no special conflict between men and women that aren't also between men and men or women and women. Conflict in any way is a result of sin, caused by sin. (Born in sin, steeped in sin).


There are only three sins, all sin whatever they are are caused by one of those three things (lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life) and there's no special wall of conflict between men and women in specific.

We, men and women, were created as complementary to one another... In this way we have different qualities but that only would create a conflict with sins influence. Not some special thing as a result of being male and female.

Careful there... He gonna put you on ignore if you keep disagreeing with him.

I'm just in a chit-chatty mood today.. anyone who doesn't want to chit chat right back doesn't have to.

I am opinionated though, but those opinions have a solid reason for being, not built on sand. If they were they would easily be proved as such.

For the record I agree with your last post. We were created to be good at different things, and to work together. I have a lot of friends who are living proof of it, and their relationships are the strongest I know of.

Very interesting. Curious about your number 5 and 6. The only scripture (that I'm aware of) to mention "the wall of hostility" by name is from Ephesians 2:14 where Paul specifically writes it's the wall of hostility between Jews and Gentiles. Is that what you're referring to?

NIV Ephesians 2:11-14
"11Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace 16and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility."


I'm most curious about your number 6. "God brought the Wall of Division (ie. the wall that prevents men and women from understanding each other so that they are unable to truly harm and destroy each other). This particular wall, unlike the Wall of Hostility, doesn't cause conflict: it diffuses conflict."

Where do you get this from? What scripture? This something you came up with yourself? An angel? Someone's writing? Something else?

I think that Satan has divided mankind in every possible way and that against God.
A true Biblical perspective unites us with the Lord Who made us, while acknowledging the obvious differences.

Here's a young woman in the news today who brought my attention to this topic.
https://theinfowar.tv/watch?id=62f3f58964384e5cc21eeb67

The broadcast begins with the lady's speech and then you can skip past Harrison's commentary to the completion of her tictoc post. She describes her change of mind from a "blue haired feminist" to a traditional perspective. I don't know if she holds to a truly biblical one, but her talk was worth the couple minutes IMHO.

Alex Jones's voice makes my eyebrows hurt

😄
That voice is pretty rough.
Hit the little "x" and you can skip right past the ad.
The lady starts right away.

How do you define a woman?

"That whole conflict wall thing you have going on isn't Scriptural."

It most certainly is Scriptural. There are many things that are Scriptural but that the Bible doesn't clearly mention. Just because the Bible doesn't clearly mention something doesn't mean that thing isn't Scriptural which is your very clear but indirect implication in that sentence.

"Because of the fall. There's no special conflict between men and women that aren't also between men and men or women and women. Conflict in any way is a result of sin, caused by sin. (Born in sin, steeped in sin)."

There is a very special conflict between men and women just like God said in Eden there would 'now' be a very special conflict between the woman's seed and the serpent. Conflict is a result of sin, but the Bible makes it clear there are different types of sin; therefore, there are different types of conflict.

"There are only three sins, all sin whatever they are are caused by one of those three things (lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life) and there's no special wall of conflict between men and women in specific."

Not three sins but "all that is in the world". If the Wall of Hostility between men and women contains anything, it contains oceans of "the pride of life". From the Wall of Hostility comes the masculine belief that "Women overall can't be trusted nor are they apt to make decisions" and the feminine belief that "Men aren't apt/sutiable to lead, and men are innately bad, but women are innately good." These are latent beliefs that men and women are born with (these aren't the only ones) as surely as the Bible talks about babies being born with iniquities and being guilty of sin at conception. Both sides ("Women can't be trusted and should never lead" and women's "Men aren't worthy of my respect and they're bad...") trace right back to the Fall where Eve at the fruit in spite of clear instructions to the contrary (therefore "women can't be trusted and should not make decisions") and Adam let Eve partake of the fruit without stopping her like a husband should (therefore, "Men aren't suitable to lead"). Not everything in the Bible is mysterious; many things are shrouded in mystery but are in fact practical and logical. The Wall of Hostility goes back to the Fall and the distrust and betrayal between the first man and woman. Now all their kids are born with the hostile mindset they acquired towards each other as a result. It's that simple.

"We, men and women, were created as complementary to one another... In this way we have different qualities but that only would create a conflict with sins influence. Not some special thing as a result of being male and female."

Oh, it's special. Lol. It's very special. Not wanting to believe something is not the same as not believing it. And not believing something isn't the same as that thing not being legitimate. I'm not trying to get you to believe it. As surely as I was able to discern the satanist plants in a church without any input other than the Holy Spirit and my own spirit, I am able to see the Wall of Hostility (that makes men and women distrusting of each other) and the Wall of Division (that hinders men and women from using, exploiting, and abusing each other even more than they are now).

Also, rather than beating this issue, why don't we do it this way: why don't we talk about this toxic or man-hating feminism that's recently appeared and why so many women agree with it. Let's see if we can decipher why women would agree with hating men. Every effect had a cause. If you follow any effect (eg. the hatred of modern feminism for men) backwards long enough, you will find its source(s). And then it'll all make sense.

Okay, after you read my response to your previous comment, let's go about this the logical, practical, or pragmatic way.

Rather than discussing whether or not there is a particular and unique Wall of Enmity between men and women that originated at the Fall (similar to the one between Jews and Gentiles that isn't nearly as vicious or strong), since the Bible doesn't come out and state it in these words (though it does talk about it very often) let's rather than going from the start (Eden and the Fall) to current times, let's look at some things happening in our current times and see if we can trace them back to the Fall and a specific Wall placed between men and women at that time in Eden.

To do this, the best place to start is the modern feminist movement and the rise of more and more women who say they hate men or who openly castigate men. Let's start with these women (just a class of women, mind you, not all women) and find where exactly all their animus and misandry come from. If you don't want to do that, then we should drop the topic. Because not only does the Bible talk about the Wall many times (without calling it that), but the evidence in support of something wrong is stark today. If you have to wait for the Bible to label things with words you're used to or feel comfortable with before you believe or accept it, then that's probably around 95% of the Bible that you have to throw out for telling the truth but not in words you can support. The Bible talks about all kind of things without plainly stating them.

It's unreasonable to say that if something isn't 'in the Bible', then it's not legit. Everything is 'in the Bible', but not everything in the Bible is apparent or plain. This shouldn't be difficult to comprehend: women often have an indirect way of speaking that men don't have. Just because she says something in an unclear and indirect way... does that make what she said irrelevant, illegitimate, moot, or obsolete? Of course not. So, don't treat the Bible like some men treat women-- dismissing what it says because it doesn't say it directly and plainly. If you want to look at the modern feminist movement and honestly trace its origins and roots all the way backwards, then we can continue this discussion. If not and you're just quoting the Bible and where it doesn't specifically say "An invisible wall of hostility between men and women from the Fall in Eden surfaced between Adam and Eden and continues between all men and women until the end of time", then there's nothing to discuss because I don't do religion. I do "Let's move forward already and stop prating and prattling about everything".

Okay, Sculpt, let me make this easy.

When we are in school, we listen to and believe everything our teachers tell us. That's how it's supposed to work. But when we are in Christ, we still listen to what others say, but our believing is no longer automatic nor does it depend on who says what or how it's said. Our believing is now dependent on taking that thing that that person said and asking God whether or not it's true.

"You have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth... These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him" (1John 2:20, 26-27).

So, the above passage is basically saying that all believers have the Holy Spirit whose anointing teaches them what is true-- able to distinguish between true and false that they hear from others. While we listen to others and have teachers, when we have the Holy Spirit to teach us, He's the one who now reveals truth to us no matter who is speaking. That's how it works in my life. I'll let you seek God on the things I said if you really want to know. If you don't really want to know, then I shouldn't be answering anyway.

She's right. There are many ex-feminists who have come out and said the same. At least one person on this forum is an ex-feminist who abandoned it when she realized that they were really just hostile towards men and not really wanting to bring equality to women.

I get it. We're all busy and also live in something of a Truman Show, so we often miss the forest for the trees and sometimes can't recognize something that is clearly evident. Here is something that should be clearly evident: men run the world, therefore, women cannot get any rights unless men say so. It isn't just women pushing feminism because it would be easy to disband and break up. It is men, men like Rockefeller (and his cohorts), men an agenda to destroy the modern family by first destroying heterosexual relationships by targeting women who are more easily manipulated and deceived than men.

Funny but sad video. I don't have any issues with gays and lesbians or trans people. (Because they aren't important enough to bother me. Lol.) I get along with everyone. What I do have a problem with is people who push their beliefs or will on others. The LGBTQIA+ lobby is guilty of forcing, threatening, dominating, and manipulating.

The same 'spirit' (ie. rebellion) at work in the LGBT (whew, tired) community is at work in the churches. The net effect is rebellion (90% of the time covert and subtle rebellion) against God.

Family units and good churches are glue that holds civilization together and brings prosperity. Women are treated better in a christian culture than any other in existence. The Devil's been like, "woman, God's not giving you what you deserve.
That man's keeping you down.

She gets out from under the protective loving hand of God, her dad, and her husband. Satan controls the gt services and that's who she's dependent upon. That" poor oppressed" girl who had a loving dad with rules is now turning her babies over to the state to raise while she works to enrich the state $ like a slave. She didn't know oppression when she was with Mom and Dad.

Naturally, most men are bewildered when they catch their girlfriends, fiancees, wives who seemed so innocent cheating on them and are bewildered at the craziness of 'modern women' who say things that are so stupid that I won't shut down my brain trying to remember or reproduce them. Men don't know what in the world is going on. I, on the hand, am thrilled that this women's liberation, female empowerment, feminism, and man-hating are finally coming to the fore. They have been there all along. Better on the surface than beneath. Men are simple and rarely realize how much room within that women have to hide all kinds of things, so unless all this madness surfaced, most men would be in the dark forever.

While satan is the one behind all this female empowerment idiocy, God is also behind it. (Read 2Samuel 24 and 1Chronicles 21 to see one of many instances in the Bible in which both God and satan were 'doing the same thing' or 'promoting the same thing' but of course for different reasons.) satan means to use female empowerment to destroy all of society. God means to use it to awaken men from their slumber. I hate insincerity, which is in the heart, so it's good that it's all surfacing now. None of this is new. The Bible says that those who practice (ie. enjoy) evil hide it so no one will stop them from enjoying it but that those who do good do it in the light. (John 3:19-21.) This misandry has been hidden within women from the time of the Fall. Both satan and God are poking and prodding it to surface. It has been hidden for the most part for many generations, one reason being that women had 'a lesser role' in society than men. Now that they're doing the same things, their pride (as pride always done) has caused them to make fools of themselves, openly bragging about what has been inside for millennia.

Men, for the most part, haven't been walking/living in their own God-given identity. The madness and misandry are going to be one of the main spearheads to turn people (starting with men) back to God. (Not everyone, of course.) When something dangerous 'lies beneath' and you never go looking for it, God is merciful to force it to surface. The issue with all the misandry and the female side of the Wall of Hostility is a hatred/rebellion against God first and then against men. People who are prideful are very easily tricked. This was and is true with even lucifer who is brilliant; but pride makes fools of people. People, also, who are rebellious are easily led/controlled. But the Jezebel spirit that promotes all of this is limited in spiritual authority. That means that unless there are compromised men and people in positions of authority tolerating (ie. allowing) this Jezebel madness to continue, Jezebel just has zero power and ability to cause harm to really anyone. All the crazy women running around with their hair on fire and saying how they're independent (and all other sorts of lies) cannot even budge if men don't give them the right of way. (Of course, they're too prideful and rebellious to know or acknowledge this.)

There are some entities out there with tremendous power who don't need anyone to give them any right of way or authority. Jezebel talks a lot but is powerless without some idiot man lending her his authority or letting her get by with malice. The only time someone in the Bible was delivered of demons without asking for or wanting deliverance, it was a Jezebel spirit. (Yes, the Bible calls it a spirit of Divination which was the entity inside the girl. There are entities above who are 'commanders' over the demons within people as in the case in Mark 5 and the Legion (the commander: "My name is Legion") and his demons inside the demonized Gadarene (the 'underlings': "for we are many").) We're simply seeing a problem that has always been alive but now has been given (say it with me) authority through all these movements and female empowerment to manifest openly, and so it is manifesting openly only when given shelter or protection under the authority of men as is always the case with the Jezebel spirit.

Y'know we're probably still confusing the crap out of SonsofCaleb...

Maybe for the time being we should put (Replying to X) tags at the bottom of posts when we quote people in his threads.

(Replying to SonsofCaleb)

where the feminist movement comes in is purely political - ie, it began and grew as a means to undermine the family unit and thus, western nations as a whole. In tact families bring up sound, thinking children and are the backbone of any society

That women fall for it still boils down to lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life (I would say that is predicated mainly in pride)

At any rate, I'll leave the conversation because I see no meeting of minds here. In my view your reading your own thinking into Scripture, rather than reading Scripture. You're yet to convince me your views in this matter have any Biblical merit, and it seems to me that just because the Bible doesn't teach this thinking of yours it's enough to convince you of anything so it's best at this time to agree to disagree...

As a person I like you, but I just beg to differ on this topic.

In case it's not clear, my like was for the truth you spoke and speak, not your intention to leave the conversation.