The Disciplined will

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laymen

laymen

Senior Member
#1
Apr 6, 2014
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#1
Do you think one of the biggest enemies besides Satan is of our own will? If so, what do you?

Today's culture with pictures and music that appeal to our senses making us emotional, feelings of fear, anger and lust trigged without even realizing it. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things"
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#2
Jun 11, 2018
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#2
Hello @laymen, on this side of the grave, the world, the flesh and the devil (cf 1 John 2:15-16) will continue to be problematic for believers, because our "old self", while suppressed by our new nature (Ezekiel 36:26-27; 2 Corinthians 5:17), continues to exist and is always ready to rear its ugly head whenever we allow it to do so :confused: This is why we are commanded to (day by day/moment by moment), put off the old self/old man/old nature and choose to put on the new self/new man/new nature instead .. e.g. Ephesians 4:22-24.

The Christian Spiritual Disciplines are one of the keys that help us do that .. e.g. Bible Study, Prayer, Fellowship, Witnessing, & Scripture Memorization (to name 5 of the very most important ones) .. e.g. Psalm 1:1-3, Psalm 119:9, 11; John 17:17, Romans 12:1-2, 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Philippians 4:6-7; 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18; Hebrews 10:24-25; Isaiah 43:10, as is disciplining ourselves in regard to the kind of things that we allow our minds and hearts to dwell on throughout the day .. Philippians 4:8.

So, we must choose to use the tools that have been made available to us through the Holy Spirit to lead disciplined lives to guard both our hearts and our minds. And we must learn to make Him part of EVERYTHING that we do by learning to practice the presence of God in every moment of our lives .. e.g. 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18.

God bless you!

~Deut


MacArthur, John - Discipline quote.jpg​
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#3
Sep 4, 2013
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#3
laymen said:
Do you think one of the biggest enemies besides Satan is of our own will? If so, what do you?

Today's culture with pictures and music that appeal to our senses making us emotional, feelings of fear, anger and lust trigged without even realizing it. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things"
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I absolutely believe our free will can cause us great problems. We are easily led astray by the temptations of the world. Given the problems free will presents, why would God give us this gift? Because He wants us to CHOOSE to love Him! He wants a people who love Him and obey Him because it is their "will" to do so through their belief in Him.

Our "will" as with all other aspects of our lives must be "disciplined" through our study of Scripture, and the maturing growth of our faith. I suspect some folks will be put off with "discipline" being needed, but, IMO, it is a certain truth. Discipline mirrors Obedience IMO......and one strengthens the other.
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#4
Jul 19, 2022
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#4
laymen said:
Do you think one of the biggest enemies besides Satan is of our own will? If so, what do you?

Today's culture with pictures and music that appeal to our senses making us emotional, feelings of fear, anger and lust trigged without even realizing it. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things"
Click to expand...
Certainly, there a whole chapter about it in Romans.
My church has a word for it as well. We call it concupiscence.
 
laymen

laymen

Senior Member
#5
Apr 6, 2014
680
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faithlife.com
#5
What do you think the church is doing as a whole or could do better to help people stuck in self isolation and I don't mean just old people. for example, someone might not have a family or a church they even might be on drugs or just would never go to church environment. What are we doing as a church to make people who feel too sinful to go to church or there is so much of a dichotomy between the world, they grew up in that church seems unrelatable. I Mean place where unchurched people can go hang out with Christians. Making it as convent as going into a coffee shop or gas station but not feel like a church but is open 7 days a week and can always find a Christian friend. like a place where no denomination of church is over it. Safe place no drugs or acholic but it might have place outside to sit or comfy coach inside. A place people can cook their own food or stay the night if they have nowhere to go, or they just want to find new people to hang out with and don't go to bars or such. As we all agree healthy environment could help so many unchurched people find their way if they had a safe place to go and get away from the world that was not "Church" as we know it but to them it's just a friendly store that worked off donations or something.

Any thoughts?
 
TheNarrowPath

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
#6
Jul 17, 2022
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#6
laymen said:
What do you think the church is doing as a whole or could do better to help people stuck in self isolation and I don't mean just old people. for example, someone might not have a family or a church they even might be on drugs or just would never go to church environment. What are we doing as a church to make people who feel too sinful to go to church or there is so much of a dichotomy between the world, they grew up in that church seems unrelatable. I Mean place where unchurched people can go hang out with Christians. Making it as convent as going into a coffee shop or gas station but not feel like a church but is open 7 days a week and can always find a Christian friend. like a place where no denomination of church is over it. Safe place no drugs or acholic but it might have place outside to sit or comfy coach inside. A place people can cook their own food or stay the night if they have nowhere to go, or they just want to find new people to hang out with and don't go to bars or such. As we all agree healthy environment could help so many unchurched people find their way if they had a safe place to go and get away from the world that was not "Church" as we know it but to them it's just a friendly store that worked off donations or something.

Any thoughts?
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Great idea, especially in the past two years the homeless situation has gotten worse, the elderly have been alone in their homes and immobile, the sick are isolated, the youth suffer from depression as do many parents who are out of employment. People are hungry for food and love and hope. I agree with your post 100%
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#7
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
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#7
laymen said:
What do you think the church is doing as a whole or could do better to help people stuck in self isolation and I don't mean just old people. for example, someone might not have a family or a church they even might be on drugs or just would never go to church environment. What are we doing as a church to make people who feel too sinful to go to church or there is so much of a dichotomy between the world, they grew up in that church seems unrelatable. I Mean place where unchurched people can go hang out with Christians. Making it as convent as going into a coffee shop or gas station but not feel like a church but is open 7 days a week and can always find a Christian friend. like a place where no denomination of church is over it. Safe place no drugs or acholic but it might have place outside to sit or comfy coach inside. A place people can cook their own food or stay the night if they have nowhere to go, or they just want to find new people to hang out with and don't go to bars or such. As we all agree healthy environment could help so many unchurched people find their way if they had a safe place to go and get away from the world that was not "Church" as we know it but to them it's just a friendly store that worked off donations or something.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
The world has changed so much with the advent of the Internet. It causes a lot of decentralization that the current format of the church doesn't handle well. Church communities commonly helped each other out back in the day. We can look at groups like the Amish and still see that group mentality that was intended. Groups of people with different skills would come together to help each other out, teach each other, and help each other with their needs.

It seems sometimes like we should adapting to current times in the spirit of what was intended. But what that is supposed to look like isn't always clear.

Maybe some churches have adapted better than others. It's hard to have reach-out programs if the base congregation size can't be maintained.
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#8
Jul 19, 2022
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#8
laymen said:
What do you think the church is doing as a whole or could do better to help people stuck in self isolation and I don't mean just old people. for example, someone might not have a family or a church they even might be on drugs or just would never go to church environment. What are we doing as a church to make people who feel too sinful to go to church or there is so much of a dichotomy between the world, they grew up in that church seems unrelatable. I Mean place where unchurched people can go hang out with Christians. Making it as convent as going into a coffee shop or gas station but not feel like a church but is open 7 days a week and can always find a Christian friend. like a place where no denomination of church is over it. Safe place no drugs or acholic but it might have place outside to sit or comfy coach inside. A place people can cook their own food or stay the night if they have nowhere to go, or they just want to find new people to hang out with and don't go to bars or such. As we all agree healthy environment could help so many unchurched people find their way if they had a safe place to go and get away from the world that was not "Church" as we know it but to them it's just a friendly store that worked off donations or something.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I have a lot of thoughts about it.
I would love to have such a shop. I always though a place where men could be men. Ya know coffee, cigars, and the other kinds of stuff that is the material things manliness. Ya know belts, beard care stuff... Etc you get the idea. Have chess, and a lounge kind of set up around a table. Then have some good theologian pastors that can hold "table talks" through out the week. Kind of have some pastoral care opportunities.
 
TheNarrowPath

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
#9
Jul 17, 2022
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#9
Dirtman said:
I have a lot of thoughts about it.
I would love to have such a shop. I always though a place where men could be men. Ya know coffee, cigars, and the other kinds of stuff that is the material things manliness. Ya know belts, beard care stuff... Etc you get the idea. Have chess, and a lounge kind of set up around a table. Then have some good theologian pastors that can hold "table talks" through out the week. Kind of have some pastoral care opportunities.
Click to expand...
We have a few mens sheds where I stay. Its a great idea for you guys to have those spaces for yourselves especially if you dont have a man cave at home :) The closest one near my place they have all the tools and the local guys can take things to fix themselves plus have a cold one with like minded men.
 
TheNarrowPath

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
#10
Jul 17, 2022
1,012
548
113
#10
Jocund said:
The world has changed so much with the advent of the Internet. It causes a lot of decentralization that the current format of the church doesn't handle well. Church communities commonly helped each other out back in the day. We can look at groups like the Amish and still see that group mentality that was intended. Groups of people with different skills would come together to help each other out, teach each other, and help each other with their needs.

It seems sometimes like we should adapting to current times in the spirit of what was intended. But what that is supposed to look like isn't always clear.

Maybe some churches have adapted better than others. It's hard to have reach-out programs if the base congregation size can't be maintained.
Click to expand...
My church started this thing they call church bubbles. Basically during the lockdowns because my government did not allow more than 100 vaccinated people maximum at church, the next best thing was for church members who still wanted fellowship to meet together in homes where they could still watch the service online. So if you wanted a bubble of vaccinated you could get that or even unvaccinated small group of church members. So thats what my church did to try work around the Govts guidelines for the pandemic.

What emerged from the past two years were groups of people in the community willing to trade off skills like you mentioned or bargain something for food etc and community markets are cropping up everywhere. I think a lot of people were starting to see that going back to basics like gardening, growing crop organically was not only better for our budgets but healthier too. A lot of community groups sharing with those less fortunate really makes you stop and be grateful. I found myself watching Amish videos to see how they cope and survive throughout and they are worth watching, their knowledge is vast.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#11
Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#11
laymen said:
Do you think one of the biggest enemies besides Satan is of our own will? If so, what do you?

Today's culture with pictures and music that appeal to our senses making us emotional, feelings of fear, anger and lust trigged without even realizing it. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things"
Click to expand...
... human free will is a hoax

The devil's greatest trick ...

It's a debate with sin zone ... shall I do this thing? God says no, I want to, God says no, do I have free will?
BANG you are doing it.
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#12
Jul 19, 2022
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#12
Evmur said:
... human free will is a hoax

The devil's greatest trick ...

It's a debate with sin zone ... shall I do this thing? God says no, I want to, God says no, do I have free will?
BANG you are doing it.
Click to expand...
Read Romans, especially chapter 7.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#13
Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#13
Dirtman said:
Read Romans, especially chapter 7.
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Romans 7 is autobiographical, recalling how it was when he was Saul of Tarsus, under the law but as yet not saved. "oh wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death ... thanks be to God Christ Jesus"

Paul the apostle was not enslaved to sin.
 
D

Dirtman

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#14
Jul 19, 2022
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#14
Evmur said:
Romans 7 is autobiographical, recalling how it was when he was Saul of Tarsus, under the law but as yet not saved. "oh wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death ... thanks be to God Christ Jesus"

Paul the apostle was not enslaved to sin.
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Am is first person present, not past. Romans 7 is written in present tense. He wasn't writing about a past condition. It is about his present condition. Making an example of himself to the Church in Rome (who never had torah) for us.
 
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