Gift of Healing

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,430
3,680
113
#61
This is what the bible says.

Matt. 8. 16-17
That evening they brought to Him many who were possessed with demons and He cast out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick. This was to fulfil what was spoken by Isaiah the prophet "He took our infirmities and bore our diseases"

Therefore healing is part of the atonement foretold in Isaiah 53.
I see the scripture you quoted but I don't see where it says physical healing is guaranteed as part of the atonement; either in Matthew or Isaiah.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#62
I see the scripture you quoted but I don't see where it says physical healing is guaranteed as part of the atonement; either in Matthew or Isaiah.

I don't see where you have provided from scripture the phrase "No guarantee." for physical healing as part of the atonement either in Matthew or Isaiah.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#63
I see the scripture you quoted but I don't see where it says physical healing is guaranteed as part of the atonement; either in Matthew or Isaiah.
Isaiah says "Surely ...."

"Surely He hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows" Matthew correctly translates griefs and sorrows to mean sickness and diseases.

Nobody ever doubts that He has borne our sins [though many grumble about the full meaning of this with regards to eternal life] so why should there be any doubt concerning sickness?

God guarantees faith, that's what He guarantees. Until people are as certain of the fact that He did actually bear their sicknesses as they are that He bore their sins healing will continue to be hit and miss.

Which side are YOU on? sowing faith or sowing doubt?

Faith is incredibly important. For if God healed without faith being in operation we might begin to worry if our healing truly came from God.

Christ's faith is superior to ours, He can override.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,430
3,680
113
#64
Isaiah says "Surely ...."

"Surely He hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows" Matthew correctly translates griefs and sorrows to mean sickness and diseases.
True, but Matthew says the fulfillment was in the miracles Jesus was doing while He was on earth. It doesn't say anything that can justify a doctrine of guaranteed healing for all, and for all time—even with faith. One has to want to see it; it's not in the text.

I'm on the side of truth. What side are you on?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#65
True, but Matthew says the fulfillment was in the miracles Jesus was doing while He was on earth. It doesn't say anything that can justify a doctrine of guaranteed healing for all, and for all time—even with faith. One has to want to see it; it's not in the text.

I'm on the side of truth. What side are you on?
So His bearing our sins was only for that day also? Isaiah 53 is a prophecy of the atonement.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#66
True, but Matthew says the fulfillment was in the miracles Jesus was doing while He was on earth. It doesn't say anything that can justify a doctrine of guaranteed healing for all, and for all time—even with faith. One has to want to see it; it's not in the text.

I'm on the side of truth. What side are you on?
I am not sure if anything can be guaranteed except God's word. God's word is truth.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#68
The price for healing it was paid
as those cruel stripes were laid
within Pilate's judgement hall

But His suffering it affords
perfect healing for all
oh this Healer of men today

But He was wounded for our transgressions
He was bruised for our iniquities
surely He bore our all sorrows
and by His stripes we are healed
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#69
How would you feel when visiting a church and after worship the pastor steps on stage and begins to pray fervently saying in this room for anyone with back pain be healed, start moving in ways that would normally hurt.

I wasn't healed but if I'm honest I doubt not that God can heal but the concept of demanding it. After all it is God's will.

Other Christians will say it is by faith that we are healed. As Jesus once said by your faith the blind man was healed.

So let's discuss this. Is it by faith, God's will, a calling to heal, or a mixture of the three making the gift of healing prevalent today?

Maybe I lacked enough faith as I wasn't expecting to be healed and wasn't there looking to be healed. Maybe the pastor lacks the calling. Or God simply said no or not yet.

What are your thoughts?
James 5:14–15 (LEB): 14 Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the elders of the church and they should pray over him, anointing him with olive oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins ⌊he will be forgiven.

This is what I think about it. The thing written in James. These are the instructions given to the Pastor James, for the church. Why would we do anything different?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#70
James 5:14–15 (LEB): 14 Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the elders of the church and they should pray over him, anointing him with olive oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins ⌊he will be forgiven.

This is what I think about it. The thing written in James. These are the instructions given to the Pastor James, for the church. Why would we do anything different?
Yes but save, raise, and forgiven sounds like bringing to salvation not necessarily to heal physically.

I can't help but hold a bias because I have never seen healing in this way nor my chronic pain healed from prayer or works of others.

I do hold to the side of caution and believe in faith that if God wishes to work this way, He absolutely could even though I have not seen it.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,430
3,680
113
#71
I'm all for praying for the sick. But I think where we run into trouble is when someone says it's always the Lord's will to heal and if we don't get healed we just don't have enough faith or we haven't sown enough "seeds" into that person's ministry. This is a gimmick used by charlatans. I'm not gloating, but Bill Johnson's wife died of cancer. I have compassion for Johnson and sincerely wish him the best. Johnson is one of the biggest preachers around today of the "it's always God's will to heal everyone"; and "everything Jesus did we can do and should do."

I know a lot of people who have faith coming out of their ears but haven't been healed. And I know people who have been healed.

The apostle Paul asked the Lord three times to remove the thorn in his flesh but he wasn't healed. Timothy had a stomach ailment that apparently went unhealed. Paul left Trophimus sick at Miletus. Did all these not have enough faith?

By all means pray, but if we don't get healed it doesn't mean it's our fault.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#72
Yes but save, raise, and forgiven sounds like bringing to salvation not necessarily to heal physically.

I can't help but hold a bias because I have never seen healing in this way nor my chronic pain healed from prayer or works of others.

I do hold to the side of caution and believe in faith that if God wishes to work this way, He absolutely could even though I have not seen it.
This letter is written to a pastor of a church about the operations of the church. I would think that those among them were the church and so saved already. Jesus himself said something along lines of, is it easier to say you are healed or your sins are forgiven, equating the two. The saved also need sins forgiven often.
I dont know precisely what your experience is, but its mine that what is described here isnt done very often. I have witnessed healing in this way.
Then you have what God said to Paul about his thorn in the flesh.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
#73
I don't see where you have provided from scripture the phrase "No guarantee." for physical healing as part of the atonement either in Matthew or Isaiah.
If it would be guaranteed, then our Christian churches must not greeve, because of church members which are suffering under all kind of sicknesses, which are dieing because of various forms of cancer and other deadly deseases.
But there is no guaratee for physical healing as an child of God in this world. And it never was, even not in the time of Jesus and the apostles.
The guarantee is: who beleves in Jesus Christ has eternal life and is not coming under the judge.
 

EricPH

New member
Jul 30, 2022
8
0
1
#74
I was going to post this in the introduction, but saw this thread.

In 1970 My mum suffered from the onset of multiple sclerosis, gradually loosing the use of both legs, then both hands. There were times she wanted to die, she even asked us to help her die, this was something we were just not able to do.
!991, My mum went into a coma and was rushed to hospital, her breathing was a horrible gurgling sound, nicknamed the death rattle. The doctors said she had days to live and there was nothing they could do for her. We called a priest, although none of us had a faith at the time, we just thought it was what you should do as mum was bought up a Catholic.
The priest came and as he prayed; my mum’s breathing seemed to relax and the gurgling sound disappeared. about ten minutes after the priest walked out the door, mum came round and she started to speak, she had no recollection of being in hospital. The doctors were surprised at her recovery; and she was discharged the following day without treatment.

We thought it might have been a temporary reprieve, but she lived another eleven years. Having our mum back was a mixed blessing, because she spent about the last fifteen years of her life paralysed from the neck down. After surviving the coma my mum regarded her healing as a blessing, and she now said she wanted to live.
I really couldn’t understand how she seemed to just accept being paralysed from the neck down; she had a sound mind. I could not understand how she seemed to be at peace with her horrific existence. She rarely complained and often seemed more worried and concerned about our problems than her own. She had a faith in God and she sometimes used to say that she is ready to meet Jesus now. People might have said that it would have been kinder for her to have passed away in hospital.
I can only say that I will never meet a stronger and kinder person than my mum; I always remember her smile. Somehow through my mum’s faith in God, I learned to accept life’s problems and to search for my own peace.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
#75
I was going to post this in the introduction, but saw this thread.

In 1970 My mum suffered from the onset of multiple sclerosis, gradually loosing the use of both legs, then both hands. There were times she wanted to die, she even asked us to help her die, this was something we were just not able to do.
!991, My mum went into a coma and was rushed to hospital, her breathing was a horrible gurgling sound, nicknamed the death rattle. The doctors said she had days to live and there was nothing they could do for her. We called a priest, although none of us had a faith at the time, we just thought it was what you should do as mum was bought up a Catholic.
The priest came and as he prayed; my mum’s breathing seemed to relax and the gurgling sound disappeared. about ten minutes after the priest walked out the door, mum came round and she started to speak, she had no recollection of being in hospital. The doctors were surprised at her recovery; and she was discharged the following day without treatment.

We thought it might have been a temporary reprieve, but she lived another eleven years. Having our mum back was a mixed blessing, because she spent about the last fifteen years of her life paralysed from the neck down. After surviving the coma my mum regarded her healing as a blessing, and she now said she wanted to live.
I really couldn’t understand how she seemed to just accept being paralysed from the neck down; she had a sound mind. I could not understand how she seemed to be at peace with her horrific existence. She rarely complained and often seemed more worried and concerned about our problems than her own. She had a faith in God and she sometimes used to say that she is ready to meet Jesus now. People might have said that it would have been kinder for her to have passed away in hospital.
I can only say that I will never meet a stronger and kinder person than my mum; I always remember her smile. Somehow through my mum’s faith in God, I learned to accept life’s problems and to search for my own peace.
Thank you for your witness. I believe nobody here would deny that God/ Jesus is healing today, too.
Sick or healthy our life is in Gods Hand equal worth.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#76
If it would be guaranteed, then our Christian churches must not greeve, because of church members which are suffering under all kind of sicknesses, which are dieing because of various forms of cancer and other deadly deseases.
But there is no guaratee for physical healing as an child of God in this world. And it never was, even not in the time of Jesus and the apostles.
The guarantee is: who beleves in Jesus Christ has eternal life and is not coming under the judge.
I wonder How much of it is because the same issue Paul addressed with the Corinthians, saying for this reason many are sick and others are asleep. 1 corinthians 11:30?
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#77
What are your thoughts?
my thoughts are what i read in the Gospels. Jesus said over and over and over "Your FAITH has healed you, or such Great Faith, Your Faith has made you whole."

maybe it's that you do have faith, you just don't believe God works through other people. which would be very erroneous.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#78
How would you feel when visiting a church and after worship the pastor steps on stage and begins to pray fervently saying in this room for anyone with back pain be healed, start moving in ways that would normally hurt.

I wasn't healed but if I'm honest I doubt not that God can heal but the concept of demanding it. After all it is God's will.

Other Christians will say it is by faith that we are healed. As Jesus once said by your faith the blind man was healed.

So let's discuss this. Is it by faith, God's will, a calling to heal, or a mixture of the three making the gift of healing prevalent today?

Maybe I lacked enough faith as I wasn't expecting to be healed and wasn't there looking to be healed. Maybe the pastor lacks the calling. Or God simply said no or not yet.

What are your thoughts?
He isnt following the instructions given and if one isnt doing what is written for us to do, can one say he is being faithful?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#79
my thoughts are what i read in the Gospels. Jesus said over and over and over "Your FAITH has healed you, or such Great Faith, Your Faith has made you whole."

maybe it's that you do have faith, you just don't believe God works through other people. which would be very erroneous.
I'm not sure I have a conclusion on this as I often wonder how people define a miracle. I define a miracle as rare and supernatural. It defies the laws of nature and anytime a miracle was done in the scriptures, it carried a message of some type. Either to confirm a message, confirm authority, to spread the message, or to confirm the power of God.

There were typically witnesses in the New Testament who could confirm such miracles.

If miracles happened everyday then they are not miracles. If someone was raised from death on a daily basis, it wouldn't even make the headlines.

So I often believe people are too emotional and ignorant of how the Spirit works. I also believe people are quick to say miracle when really it could have natural causes.

But who knows, I claim ignorance as well and hold to the fact that God can do anything within His will and His timing.

Sometimes and often healing is answered with a no. We are finite beings and only here for so long. Pain helps us to be ready to go and more easier to let go of the things in this world.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,618
810
113
#80
How would you feel when visiting a church and after worship the pastor steps on stage and begins to pray fervently saying in this room for anyone with back pain be healed, start moving in ways that would normally hurt.
Depends - IF the pastor was manifesting a "Word of Knowledge", then following his instructions could have resulted in Healing.

IF he was just being "religious", then not so much.

Peter at the temple gate encountered the Lame man, and told him "SUCH AS I HAVE, I'm gonna give you - i.e. Pete KNEW that God was going to heal the cripple. He didn't ask if the guy had "Faith", he just told him to get up and walk AND PICKED HIM UP!!!! You'd BETTER know what's gonna happen if you pick up a cripple!!!! Pete probably wasn't even SURPRISED when the Cripple was healed - God had already let him KNOW what was going to happen.

You apparently had no FAITH in what the pastor said, and sure enough, nothing happened. When anything happens (like a healing) in a Pentecostal church, everybody is pleasantly surprised, because they really don't EXPECT anything.