The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed?

The verse above is from Luke 17:20 (NASB). The NKJV says: "The kingdom of God does not come with observation;"

Jesus says the Kingdom doesn't come with signs, or in ways that can be observed. But isn't that exactly what happened? What do you make of this verse?

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Luk 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

It simply means that the day of the coming of the lord will come very suddenly , like lightening, once the prohecised conditions are me like in luke 17:26

Peace,

JF



JF

Agree, but the kingdom of heaven is coming with observation when he will sit upon the throne of his glory, the throne of David in Jerusalem.

he’s being asked when it’s going to come to earth he’s answering about when he returns from heaven where the kingdom is now

many believe there’s going to be mass chaos the anti christ will Be obvious the world will be in total chaos ect but Jesus answer is different he’s saying there’s not going to be any obvious worldly signs but the world will be seemingly going on as normal when he comes

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:20-21, 24-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬


we can’t observe the kingdom with our eyes of flesh because it’s now in heaven , one day the world is going to end d the kingdom in heaven that we can’t see , will become tangible earthly reality but our current flesh is still never going to see it , we have to be translated into the kingdom because it’s not of the world we live in like our bodies are

a lot of what he says we have to understand there’s an unseen realm that we cannot observe and see physically a lot of that Jesus says happens in the spiritual realm we can’t see for now we have the gospel of the kingdom inside our heart later we will enter the kingdom he tells us of in the gospel we can’t see it though physically now we have to believe it by faith and know it’s there

just like the holy spirit we can’t see him , but we know him inside our hearts through the knowledge ofnthe gospel that tells us we will receive the spirit the only proof we have is what he said and then us following it and experiencing what he said

The spirit is the same principle

“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The world can’t see Gods things because they won’t hear his word and believe the Pharisees we’re waiting for a physical kingdom to overthrow Rome a warrior messiah fleshly delivering them fro romes dominion

Jesus was telling them “ you guys are way off it’s not a worldly kingdom , you aren’t going to see a physical kingdom overthrow Rome and restore your place in earth “

he’s explaining it’s a spiritual message about spiritual life and a spiritual kingdom where God lives and is calling us to come and be with him in his home not this corrupt world

there’s an unseen kingdom , one day all of creation will crumble d all that will remain is that unseen kingdom and those who hears and believes and embraced the promises of Christ in the gospel of the kingdom

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:….
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s why it does t come with observation by this world

This corresponds to what Christ said -- that the Kingdom of God is within you. As noted in John chapter 3 it is only through the internal and supernatural New Birth that anyone can enter and see the Kingdom of God. Therefore it cometh not with observation. Only God knows who are actually His children through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

At the same time Christ and the apostles used signs, wonders, and miracles to authenticate the divine origin of the Gospel.

He’s already on David’s throne in heaven

“Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For

…he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:29-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


if you go back and look at what he promised David , he says “ I’m not telling you to build Me a house but I’m telling you I will build you an house , and your throne will be forever, and upon your throne will sit your seed forever. “

Jesus is the promised king when he went into heaven he sat on David’s throne because that’s where the kingdom is in heaven there’s a new Jerusalem


“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus kingdom is already there we just can’t see it we have to jeer about it in scripture to Know

See Abraham walked through the promised land but he never settled anywhere he just wandered looking for Gods heavenly promise thy second promise regarding Isaac and the stars of heaven

the promised land is actually in heaven and will eventually return to a new earth

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭

that heavenly City of God os the new Jerusalem he promised

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a heavenly kingdom where Christ is seated on David’s throne one day it’s going to come back from heaven the whole new Jerusalem already there will appear

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so all this is in heaven but someday is going to be on the new earth offer the judgement of this world


“city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, “


There are already citizens in the kingdom as well from all
Nations among those angels and spirits of just men made perfect

there’s a whole kingdom in full swing in heaven people celebrating salvstion with angels and the lord he’s gathering us from this world who believe and bringing us into his kingdom by our living spirit

what’s in heaven one day will return and every eye will see it begin to unfold

the Pharisees who asked Jesus when the kingdom was coming , we’re waiting for an earthly kingdom to overthrow romes oppression of them a deliverer and warrior messiah a revolutionary king of war an earthly kingdom is what they were asking about Jesus was telling them the kingdom in talking about is nOt of this world and can’t be seen

He‘s been raised but not take the throne yet. He is seated at the right hand of the Father. Matthew 25 is future on earth. Jesus is not on a throne. He is a Prince, a king in waiting.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Acts 5:
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

“He‘s been raised but not take the throne yet”

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭

He’s at Gods right hand on The throne in the heavenly Jerusalem the kingdom of God

And more than that there are
People of all Nations with him before his throne

“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


while heavens kingdom is celebrating and the kingdom is established In Heaven

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

( you see the kingdom in heaven d simultaneously you see the earth being wanted because Satan came while the others are in heavens kingdom t he inhabitants of earth are in this situation)


Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s here for some to understand heavens kingdom is already there and salvstion is already filled the heavens d people who once lived on earth and were washed in the blood are there with him just as it says there

“in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. “


Meanwhile on earth Satan is at war with the church thats on earth and haven’t entered the kingdom Of heaven yet

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭

while heaven is already established and the saved are with him in the end of this world this is going to happen what’s already in heaven is going to come and re establish earth

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jerusalem Is now in heaven the earthly Jerusalem was according to the blessing and curse of the law. It’s not our promised land this is

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this current earth where earthly Jerusalem is has this ahead

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


This earth is going to end there is no eternal throne on this earth it’s in heaven where Jesus is and one day what’s in heaven with Jesus is going to come from heaven and establish the new creation

we have to understand there are two creations in scriptire the one we live in now is doomed to destruction and fire

there’s another God told us about it’s in heaven and one day will fill creation

we have to hear what he was saying all along

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭

When we try to make the old covenant hat governed earth into the new covenant that is saving us from it we end up looking at the Old Testament earthly promises made to Israel based on whether they kept or broke the ckvenwnt law of that land they broke it and cursed the earth to destruction

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s why he’s promised a new creation and given a New Testament and oro
Used a new promised land

the new doesn’t lead to the old earthly promises it leads to the eternal kingdom

All
Power has been given to the king already that’s the image of a throne it’s the rule and reign of Christ now already in heaven and after satans time expires he’s going to reveal it to the earth

The Rapture can happen at any time, but the coming of Jesus with His saints will be preceded by the Tribulation period of 7 years.

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There's not two thrones in heaven. Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father. The throne of Jesus is an earthly throne, the throne of David. David's throne was always earthly, not heavenly.

God has only one throne which is in heaven. Jesus is God Almighty and Lord of all creation (Eph. 1:20-22). He sits on the throne in heaven ruling over all creation. Jesus does not have an earthy throne because that would limit Him, and He is limitless. Both the Father, the Son, and the Spirit make up ONE GOD. God is Spirit so He doesn't have a right or left hand. The right hand is simply symbolic of His limitless power and authority in heaven and on earth (Mat. 28:18). Jesus has the power of God because He is God.

The Son is in the Father, the Father is in the Son (Jn 14:20) while both the Father and the Son dwell in the believer by the Spirit of God (Jn 14:23).

Salvation of the soul cannot be observed with the physical eye. Nor can anyone know when they are about to be saved. When someone is saved by God that someone instantaneously enters the kingdom of God in their soul existence.

Romans 10:17
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

2 Corinthians 5:7
“(For we walk by faith, not by sight”

“He‘s been raised but not take the throne yet. He is seated at the right hand of the Father. Matthew 25 is future on earth.”

not this present earth but that’s for after the end me the renewed earth that comes down from heaven it’s already in heaven

“And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s going to happen at this time after the end of the world we know

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Heaven is already there the spiritual kingdom , the earth has doom ahead and then a new earth will be for that heavenly kingdom

it’s not until this creation ends in a blaze of fire that the heavenly kingdom. Comes to a new earth, that’s also when we will receive new earthly bodies to dwell on earth with God

but until then there are the living spirits who go to be with Gods spirit in heavens kingdom where Christ is king and salvation reigns and Satan has already been barred forever from thier heavenly home one day he’s going to be also barred from earth as well

I think this verse should be understood with this one .


Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost

Jesus did signs and wonders, and those things ought to have been evidence that Jesus was from heaven; but giving sight to the blind and making the lame walk are not things that normal kings do to establish a kingdom. They weren't going to see Jesus establish law-enforcement and raise armies in the conventional/worldly sense.

Here we go again…when one does not take the Bible literally as possible, one can make it say anything they want.

So you just make things up as you go along even though you have just arrived here?

Since the Bible says several times that God has a right hand, and the Bible also shows us that God the Father sits on His throne in Heaven, you are concocting your own theology. BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS.

REVELATION 5: THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD AND THE LAMB BEFORE THE THRONE
1 And I saw in the right hand of him [God the Father] that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb [Christ] as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he [Christ] came and took the book out of the right hand of him [God the Father] that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Hello ResidentAlien.
I believe our Lird meant his Kingdom is here now but not perceived, because we need the mind of Christ to see the place we live as God sees it.
Nehemiah6 cited Jn.3:3 where Jesus says,

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

Thus world is getting far from the truth that everything in existence is within Gods' Kingdom.

There's something else. The scriptures are written in a way that gives Gods' point of view, or mans point of view and therefore become corkscrewed unless we know the difference.

Does what the Scriptures say mean nothing to you? Scofield Darby stick the Word of God again