what exactly does this mean?

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JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#21
Jan 16, 2021
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#21
TheLearner said:
Acts 1, a person of the godhead can choose not to know something. Jesus or Son of God choose not to know when the second coming was going to be.
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I dont read that in that passage....I read Jesus not telling them something that they won't understand or need to know.
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#22
Jan 27, 2021
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#22
TheLearner said:
Acts 1, a person of the godhead can choose not to know something. Jesus or Son of God choose not to know when the second coming was going to be.
Click to expand...
When in the flesh Jesus knew men's hearts.
There may have been things He knew in eternity past, but didn't know in the flesh.
Since the Father is above all, the father could know something the Son didn't, & the Son would have perfectly understood why.
Choosing not to know? I don't think so, for that would have been a lie & deception.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#23
Jan 16, 2021
6,187
2,503
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#23
Edify said:
When in the flesh Jesus knew men's hearts.
There may have been things He knew in eternity past, but didn't know in the flesh.
Since the Father is above all, the father could know something the Son didn't, & the Son would have perfectly understood why.
Choosing not to know? I don't think so, for that would have been a lie & deception.
Click to expand...
Agree....

Jesus often appeared to be deceitful or false but He truly wasn't...He regularly spoke the truth.

Deliberately "not knowing " is the same as a lie of omission... not in Jesus's repertoire. He is not a man that needs to lie. He told the apostles it wasn't for them to know and that settled the matter more than sufficiently. The rest of the statement is about no one knowing or ever knowing here on earth...there are no clues as to year or anything else that indicates anything to specific timelines..

Anybody saying anything against this is a liar.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#24
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#24
JohnDB said:
I dont read that in that passage....I read Jesus not telling them something that they won't understand or need to know.
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6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#25
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#25
Edify said:
When in the flesh Jesus knew men's hearts.
There may have been things He knew in eternity past, but didn't know in the flesh.
Since the Father is above all, the father could know something the Son didn't, & the Son would have perfectly understood why.
Choosing not to know? I don't think so, for that would have been a lie & deception.
Click to expand...
  1. Hebrews 8:12
    For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
  2. Hebrews 10:17
    And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Since God can choose to forget our sins, then he can choose not to know when and where a surprise party for him is.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#26
Jan 14, 2019
8,182
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Brighton, MI
#26
JohnDB said:
Agree....

Jesus often appeared to be deceitful or false but He truly wasn't...He regularly spoke the truth.

Deliberately "not knowing " is the same as a lie of omission... not in Jesus's repertoire. He is not a man that needs to lie. He told the apostles it wasn't for them to know and that settled the matter more than sufficiently. The rest of the statement is about no one knowing or ever knowing here on earth...there are no clues as to year or anything else that indicates anything to specific timelines..

Anybody saying anything against this is a liar.
Click to expand...
  1. Hebrews 8:12
    For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
  2. Hebrews 10:17
    And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Since God can choose to forget our sins, then he can choose not to know when and where a surprise party for him is.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#27
Jan 14, 2019
8,182
1,574
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68
Brighton, MI
#27
  1. Hebrews 8:12
    For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
  2. Hebrews 10:17
    And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Since God can choose to forget our sins, then he can choose not to know when and where a surprise party for him is.
 
C

CorrectiveLens

Banned
#29
Dec 30, 2020
868
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#29
TheLearner said:
quote:

IV. If ever there was a time when the Father was not, then there was a time when the Son was not. If ever there was a time when the Son was not, then there was a time when the Spirit was not. If the One was from the beginning, then the Three were so too. If you throw down the One, I am bold to assert that you do not set up the other Two. For what profit is there in an imperfect Godhead? Or rather, what Godhead can there be if It is not perfect? And how can that be perfect which lacks something of perfection? And surely there is something lacking if it has not the Holy, and how would it have this if it were without the Spirit? For either holiness is something different from Him, and if so let some one tell me what it is conceived to be; or if it is the same, how is it not from the beginning, as if it were better for God to be at one time imperfect and apart from the Spirit? If He is not from the beginning, He is in the same rank with myself, even though a little before me; for we are both parted from Godhead by time. If He is in the same rank with myself, how can He make me God, or join me with Godhead?

V. Or rather, let me reason with you about Him from a somewhat earlier point, for we have already discussed the Trinity. The Sadducees altogether denied the existence of the Holy Spirit, just as they did that of Angels and the Resurrection; rejecting, I know not upon what ground, the important testimonies concerning Him in the Old Testament. And of the Greeks those who are more inclined to speak of God, and who approach nearest to us, have formed some conception of Him, as it seems to me, though they have differed as to His Name, and have addressed Him as the Mind of the World, or the External Mind, and the like. But of the wise men amongst ourselves, some have conceived of him as an Activity, some as a Creature, some as God; and some have been uncertain which to call Him, out of reverence for Scripture, they say, as though it did not make the matter clear either way. And therefore they neither worship Him nor treat Him with dishonour, but take up a neutral position, or rather a very miserable one, with respect to Him. And of those who consider Him to be God, some are orthodox in mind only, while others venture to be so with the lips also. And I have heard of some who are even more clever, and measure Deity; and these agree with us that there are Three Conceptions; but they have separated these from one another so completely as to make one of them infinite both in essence and power, and the second in power but not in essence, and the third circumscribed in both; thus imitating in another way those who call them the Creator, the Co-operator, and the Minister, and consider that the same order and dignity which belongs to these names is also a sequence in the facts

end quote:

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310231.htm

Paragraph V was quoted by an Arian today.
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The Bible says that the Holy Spirit of God proceedeth from the Father and Christ proceedeth from the Father. In the beginning was the Word (Christ). The Father has no beginnning. The beginning is a point in time and it started when Christ proceedeth from the Father who is a Spirit. Christ is a Spirit with His own mind, heart, and soul. All things made are made by the Father through Christ. Christ is the God of all things made because the Father has put all things under His feet except Himself. The Father has even given Christ His own kingdom to rule over because of His perfection in obeying Him. This kingdom is made up of all the saints that have been baptized in the name of the Father, in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Spirit. These are in Christ because they are part of Christ's spiritual body. As such, we live and die with Christ and will rise again with Him and inherit all His blessings. All who have been baptized in the Father's name have received His Spirit when they trusted in Christ (baptism in the name of the Son) and belong to the Father's family. We become adopted children of the Father and the bride of Christ as a group because as a bride and groom become one unit through marriage, we become One with Christ ( who is One with the Father). The Father is the One whose will is accomplished through His Spirit in Christ and therefore is the God of all (including Christ).
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#30
Sep 2, 2020
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#30
TheLearner said:
Acts 1, a person of the godhead can choose not to know something. Jesus or Son of God choose not to know when the second coming was going to be.
Click to expand...
When Jesus was on earth

“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:32‬

and when Jesus was taken up into heaven

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Jesus came to earth he had to become a subject as man is to God this limited what he knew while in earth like the day and hour of his return

but when he returned to heaven , he returned to his glory the glory of the father who knows and determines the outcome of all things
 
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