Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

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Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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Yes, I read your other post that stated the same thing. I'm informing you of where those translators gained their materials. That is 90% of which was from the work of William Tyndale.
Who was burned at the stake for his efforts pre-KJV.
I'm fully aware.
This fact doesnt change the other fact. They are not opposition to each other.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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"Sons of God" are always believers. Human believers. They are defined as such in John 1:12 and at least 2 other places in the NT by saying things like "we"(believers) are the "sons of God" and "they"(believers) are the "sons of God" . There is none such passage which equates "sons of God" with "angels" or any other being besides believers, none, zero.
Genesis 6:1-22 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. ...

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
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...and no, baptism is not necessary for salvation. Salvation is about turning to Jesus in your heart, by faith. Dunking in water is a "work". The thief on the cross went to heaven but had no opportunity to be baptized in water.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Not true. Otherwise Jesus,who baptized no one, did not example that purpose you wrongly add as a work of man to assist God's grace that saves through faith.

You also in that false attribution therein condemn every person who accepted Christ and were not also baptized.

But you know this. It's your purpose and intent.
Jesus water baptized people in John 3 and it says so point blank. You’re so confused because your premise is wrong, but you won’t hear that.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
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...and no, baptism is not necessary for salvation. Salvation is about turning to Jesus in your heart, by faith. Dunking in water is a "work". The thief on the cross went to heaven but had no opportunity to be baptized in water.
Prove by scripture that he was never in his life baptized with water.....
 
Jun 5, 2020
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You weren't fully aware.
There is no evidence that the Hitler ever said ''To conquer a Nation, first disarm its Citizens.'' Why not do the research before posting nonsense to justify your predetermined "truth"?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Kinda funny all the people who don’t just agree with everything the Bible says about water baptism. If the Bible says that baptism saves then it must save in some way.

How come the people who greatly minimize or reject water baptism never just agree that it saves and is required?
I believe that Jesus taught a doctrine that, there is an eternal salvation (deliverance - Greek translation), and there are many deliverances (salvations) that his born again children experience as they sojourn here in this world.

Too many of good intentioned, born again children, apply all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance, which tends, to them, to teach that eternal deliverance is accomplished by their good works.

There are many deliverances that born again children receive as they sojourn here on earth, due to their good works.

Those that have been revealed this knowledge are but a few. The scriptures refer to them as; the remnant. the little flock. the few, etc.

Those born again children, who do not have this knowledge, and are going about depending on the letter of the old law to deliver them eternally, do still have the security of their eternal inheritance of heaven, accomplished by Christ's death on the cross, but are considered "lost" from the knowledge of their eternal deliverance, and are in need of being saved (delivered) as they live here in this world.

God's , spiritually, ordained preachers are instructed to teach this knowledge of what Jesus has done for them on the cross to his born again children who are "lost" to this knowledge, and are still depending upon their works to deliver them eternally.

The scriptures do not tell us how to get delivered eternally, but they do explain how we were delivered eternally, and that was by the sovereign grace of God requiring his Son to go to the cross in payment for the sins of those that he gave to him.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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Prove by scripture that he was never in his life baptized with water.....
The onus is on you to prove he was.

Here's the first clue to help you and those like you who add to God's word.
He was being crucified for the sin of theft.
He knew Jesus because Jesus was known as the itinerate Rabbi, and Messiah, ministering the Gospel of Salvation.
It was from his own cross that he asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes into his kingdom.

If he had been baptized and saved prior he would not have asked Jesus to remember him after the thief died on his own cross.

The thief was saved right then and there by Jesus himself. Jesus didn't stop time, get them both down from the cross and run right quick to the Jordan so to baptize the thief.
Jesus, the living water, saved the thief right there. How? Because the thief met Jesus' criteria. By grace the thief knew who Jesus was. By the thiefs faith in Jesus our Lord knew him too.

Works do not save.

If immersion were mandatory God would never call any dessert dwellers to his Salvation.

Dessert.
No water.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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The onus is on you to prove he was.

Here's the first clue to help you and those like you who add to God's word.
He was being crucified for the sin of theft.
He knew Jesus because Jesus was known as the itinerate Rabbi, and Messiah, ministering the Gospel of Salvation.
It was from his own cross that he asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes into his kingdom.

If he had been baptized and saved prior he would not have asked Jesus to remember him after the thief died on his own cross.

The thief was saved right then and there by Jesus himself. Jesus didn't stop time, get them both down from the cross and run right quick to the Jordan so to baptize the thief.
Jesus, the living water, saved the thief right there. How? Because the thief met Jesus' criteria. By grace the thief knew who Jesus was. By the thiefs faith in Jesus our Lord knew him too.

Works do not save.

If immersion were mandatory God would never call any dessert dwellers to his Salvation.

Dessert.
No water.
No sir. The burden of prove is the one who introduced his as evidence.
I never made an emphatic claim that he was or was not baptized I simply asked someone to prove their claim

Gaslighting is bad umkay
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Not true. Otherwise Jesus,who baptized no one, did not example that purpose you wrongly add as a work of man to assist God's grace that saves through faith.

You also in that false attribution therein condemn every person who accepted Christ and were not also baptized.

But you know this. It's your purpose and intent.
What I stated is in fact true: "Being obedient to the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is the result of trusting in God. For it was He who instituted the NT command along with it's purpose."

I share the truth out of love. And my prayer is you, as well as others, will receive revelation that only God can give.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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There is no evidence that the Hitler ever said ''To conquer a Nation, first disarm its Citizens.'' Why not do the research before posting nonsense to justify your predetermined "truth"?
Non sequitur.
You quoted a post where nothing of the kind was said. Why not take the time to find my post instead of blurting your grudge when the opportunity affords itself on s thread wholly removed from where I posted Hitler's quote? Btw , the owner of Snopes isn't a good source to find 'truth'. Do the research.

You think because someone didn't write it down that Hitler didn't say that? History speaks for itself. And that quote synopsized exactly what he did.

''In 1933, the ultimate extremist group, led by Adolf Hitler, seized power and used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued. Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.”

During the five years of repression that followed, society was “cleansed” by the National Socialist regime. Undesirables were placed in camps where labor made them “free,” and normal rights of citizenship were taken from Jews. The Gestapo banned independent gun clubs and arrested their leaders. Gestapo counsel Werner Best issued a directive to the police forbidding issuance of firearm permits to Jews.

In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Now that many “enemies of the state” had been removed from society, some restrictions could be slightly liberalized, especially for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry, and .22 caliber hollow-point ammunition was banned.''
https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/12/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook/


From page 266:https://www.researchgate.net/public...'Enemies_of_the_State''_by_Stephen_P_Halbrook

''...Ultimately, the prohibitions enacted by the Nazi regime led
to monopoly control of firearms by the Nazis and eliminated the
ability of many groups in society to defend themselves. Halbrook
offers further episodes of gun control in the conclusion, detailing
how two decades of gun control unfolded during World War II.''
 
Jun 5, 2020
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Non sequitur.
You quoted a post where nothing of the kind was said. Why not take the time to find my post instead of blurting your grudge when the opportunity affords itself on s thread wholly removed from where I posted Hitler's quote? Btw , the owner of Snopes isn't a good source to find 'truth'. Do the research.

You think because someone didn't write it down that Hitler didn't say that? History speaks for itself. And that quote synopsized exactly what he did.

''In 1933, the ultimate extremist group, led by Adolf Hitler, seized power and used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued. Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.”

During the five years of repression that followed, society was “cleansed” by the National Socialist regime. Undesirables were placed in camps where labor made them “free,” and normal rights of citizenship were taken from Jews. The Gestapo banned independent gun clubs and arrested their leaders. Gestapo counsel Werner Best issued a directive to the police forbidding issuance of firearm permits to Jews.

In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Now that many “enemies of the state” had been removed from society, some restrictions could be slightly liberalized, especially for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry, and .22 caliber hollow-point ammunition was banned.''
https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/12/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook/


From page 266:https://www.researchgate.net/public...'Enemies_of_the_State''_by_Stephen_P_Halbrook

''...Ultimately, the prohibitions enacted by the Nazi regime led
to monopoly control of firearms by the Nazis and eliminated the
ability of many groups in society to defend themselves. Halbrook
offers further episodes of gun control in the conclusion, detailing
how two decades of gun control unfolded during World War II.''
Non sequitur.
 
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
383
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No sir. The burden of prove is the one who introduced his as evidence.
I never made an emphatic claim that he was or was not baptized I simply asked someone to prove their claim

Gaslighting is bad umkay
You should direct that last remark to the one that introduced the idea concerning the thief and baptism.🙄

Belaboring man's point, the thief was or was not baptized, is contrary to proper exegesis. And unworthy of Christians to add such a thing to that part of the testament just to further their works salvation heresy.

I for one will not sully the scriptures as others do by continuing in this abuse of the word.
Sadly it appears that is the purpose and intent of some.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
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...and no, baptism is not necessary for salvation. Salvation is about turning to Jesus in your heart, by faith. Dunking in water is a "work". The thief on the cross went to heaven but had no opportunity to be baptized in water.
The thief was under the OT. Obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin was begun on the Day of Pentecost. It is a NT command. Jesus made mention that it was to come. (Luke 24:47)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
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Prove by scripture that he was!
As you allude to, there is no scripture saying if he was or wasn't. However, what many fail to realize is water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin was a NT command begun on the Day of Pentecost. And since the thief died prior to Jesus' death, burial and resurrection the requirement did not apply to him.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Hope you don't mind my replying with a description given by someone else that explains what I believe scripture reflects as well:

W. A. Criswell, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas, and past president of the Southern Baptist Convention, described the deity of Christ in the following terms:
"I often wonder at people who think that in heaven they are going to see three Gods. If you ever see three Gods, then what the Mohammedan says about you is true and what the Jewish neighbor says about you is true. You are not a monotheist, you are a polytheist. You believe in a multiplication of Gods, plural. “Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one God.” We know God as our Father, we know God as our Saviour and we know God by His Spirit in our hearts. But there are not three Gods.

The true Christian is a monotheist. There is one God. “I and my Father are one.” “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.” The Lord God is He that speaks. It is He that John saw when he turned around. The only God you will ever see is the Lord God whom John saw in the vision of the lampstands. The only God you will ever feel is the Lord God’s Spirit in your heart. The only God there is, is the great Father of us all. The one Lord God, Christ. In the Old Testament we call Him Jehovah. In the New Testament, the New Covenant, we call Him Jesus. The one great God, standing in authority and in judgment and in judicial dignity among His churches, here today, watching over us. “I saw one like [a great mystical symbol] unto the Son of man.” It is the very Lord God who is coming, for Christ Jesus is God of this universe. We are not going to see three Gods in heaven. Never persuade yourself that in glory we are going to look at God No. 1 and God No. 2 and God No. 3. No! There is one great Lord God. We know Him as our Father, we know Him as our Saviour, we know Him as the Holy Spirit in our hearts. There is one God and this is the great God, called in the Old Testament, Jehovah, and, incarnate, called in the New Testament Jesus, the Prince of heaven, who is coming.

Jesus is Yahweh of the Old Testament. This is established by studying many Old Testament statements concerning Yahweh that the New Testament applies to Jesus. For example, in Isaiah 45:23 Yahweh said, “Unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear,” but in Romans 14:10-11 and Philippians 2:10-11 Paul applied this prophecy to Christ. The Old Testament describes Yahweh as the Almighty, I am, only Savior, Lord of lords, First and Last, only Creator, Holy One, Redeemer, Judge, Shepherd and Light; yet the New Testament gives all these titles to Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the Father. “His name shall be called . . .The mighty God, The everlasting Father” (Isaiah 9:6). “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30). “The Father is in me, and I in him” (John 10:38). “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9). Jesus is the father of overcomers (Revelation 21:6-7). The Bible attributes many works both to the Father and to Jesus: resurrecting Christ’s body, sending the Paraclete, drawing men to God, answering prayer, sanctifying believers, and resurrecting the dead.

The Holy Spirit is literally the Spirit that was in Jesus Christ. “The Spirit of truth . . . dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you” (John 14:17-18). “The Lord is that Spirit” (II Corinthians 3:17). The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Son and the Spirit of Jesus Christ (Galatians 4:6; Philippians 1:19). The New Testament ascribes the following works both to Jesus and to the Holy Spirit: moving on prophets of old, resurrection of Christ’s body, work as the Paraclete, giving words to believers in time of persecution, intercession, sanctification, and indwelling of believers. While not rejecting trinitarianism, Lewis Smedes has acknowledged, “The experience of the Spirit is the experience with the Lord. In the new age, the Lord is the Spirit. . . . The Spirit is the ascended Jesus in His earthly action. . . . The Spirit is Christ in His redemptive functions. . . . This suggests that we do not serve a biblical purpose by insisting on the Spirit as a person who is separate from the person whose name is Jesus.”
Thank you for responding.

Am I reading correctly that you don't believe in the Trinity?
The main reason that the Holy Spirit is not a person?
Do you not believe in one God but as three separate persons?
Do you believe in only one God as one person and the Holy Spirit is some kind of force?

Lewis Smedes.
One of the best quotes I have ever read and for me it's essential for a person struggling with hurt and pain and anger.

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free only to realise the prisoner was you"