And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

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Runningman

Banned
#41
Mar 4, 2020
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#41
PennEd said:
Lol! And just WHAT is going to be more tolerable during this judgement?

And while your at it, maybe you can explain away how the Pharisees are going to have a GREATER condemnation?


Luke 20:47
King James Version


47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
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Greater condemnation or damnation means stricter judgment and less leniency.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed on account of 10 righteous people not being found within the city.

Genesis 18
32Finally, Abraham said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak once more. Suppose ten are found there?”

And He answered, “On account of the ten, I will not destroy it.”

That means the city will be judged more strictly if they receive less tolerance than Sodom and Gomorrah.

Now what does this have to do with eternal torment? You never explained that for us.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#42
Jan 12, 2022
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#42
kleronomos said:
All the elements are burned up when Christ returns, the works and wisdom of man.

Could you just give the verses that you are using for what you are trying to say?


AND GOD IS THAT CONSUMING FIRE


This earth isn't going anywhere. It is being made new. It is the AGE that disappears and all knowledge of it. Nothing new under the sun.

The former things will be forgotten.


GREEK, always seems to clear up misunderstandings in what is TRANSLATED.



And I saw a heaven new and an earth new for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away and the sea not is any longer

2537. kainos
Strong's Concordance
kainos: new, fresh
Original Word: καινός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: kainos
Phonetic Spelling: (kahee-nos')
Definition: new, fresh
Usage: fresh, new, unused, novel.
HELPS Word-studies
2537 kainós – properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."





565. aperchomai ►
Strong's Concordance
aperchomai: to go away, go after
Original Word: ἀπέρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: aperchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-erkh'-om-ahee)
Definition: to go away, go after
Usage: I come or go away from, depart, return, arrive, go after, follow.



The old AGE ended, a new AGE begun.
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Okay then why does Lord Jesus say they will suffer eternally where the fire is never quenched and their worm dies not? Heaven and earth catch fire and dissolve; well where does that fire go for eternity? Even hell gets thrown into the lake of fire, so that's the entirety of the old creation (which we currently inhabit). Maybe at the outer limits, outside the new creation, which is the new earth and the new heavens? Maybe the lake of fire is out there in the darkness where Jesus says there will be weeping and gnashing of the teeth forever? A fitting reward for the Devil and all his kingdom, they shall inherit the earth that they loved more than God indeed and tried to take over and conquer, but they shall inherit it in flames, futilely, throughout this age of mortality. Those that loved Jesus will inherit the Kingdom of God
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#45
Jan 12, 2022
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#45
Luke 13:23-30
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#46
Mar 4, 2020
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#46
A-Sword-Cometh said:
The ones about the fire never being quenched and them weeping and gnashing their teeth forever.
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I mean, I know of ones where the “fire” won’t be quenched and weeping and gnashing of teeth, but they don’t say suffer eternally.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#47
Jan 12, 2022
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#47
Matthew 25:34-46

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#48
Mar 4, 2020
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#48
A-Sword-Cometh said:
Matthew 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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This says only the fire is everlasting.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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This doesn’t say “punishing.” The punishment is complete and lasts forever because the punishment is death. Remember, only the righteous get eternal life.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#49
Jan 12, 2022
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#49
Runningman said:
This says only the fire is everlasting.



This doesn’t say “punishing.” The punishment is complete and lasts forever because the punishment is death. Remember, only the righteous get eternal life.
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Do you know what everlasting means?
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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#50
Jan 19, 2019
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#50
Runningman said:
which verse says Jesus said that they will “suffer eternally?”
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Which verse says God is a Trinity?

The Scriptures give us sufficient associations between verses to deduce correct conclusions that aren't stated explicitly.

““If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.” (Matthew 18:8)​

Eternal sin = eternal punishment
 
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Runningman

Banned
#51
Mar 4, 2020
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#51
A-Sword-Cometh said:
Do you know what everlasting means?
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Yes. Did you know death is an everlasting punishment?

Revelation 20:8
8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

This is the opposite of everlasting life.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#52
Mar 4, 2020
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#52
Diakonos said:
Which verse says God is a Trinity?

The Scriptures give us sufficient associations between verses to deduce correct conclusions that aren't stated explicitly.
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That’s a non sequitur.

““If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.”
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(Matthew 18:8)
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Eternal sin = eternal punishment
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It doesn’t say eternal torment. It says the fire is eternal.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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#53
Jan 19, 2019
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#53
Runningman said:
That’s a non sequitur.
​
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I assumed you would see between the lines. I'll rephrase...
Runningman said:
which verse says Jesus said that they will “suffer eternally?”
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The Bible doesn't have to use a particular phrasing for us to correctly identify doctrinal truths.

For example, God is a Trinity.
Which verse says "God is a Trinity"?
There is no verse that says God is a Trinity.
But we can know that God is a Trinity through logical inference. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct, yet each are called "God" in the Scriptures.

From this (and other) examples, the Scriptures give us sufficient associations between verses to deduce correct conclusions that aren't stated explicitly.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#54
Mar 4, 2020
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#54
Diakonos said:
I assumed you would see between the lines. I'll rephrase...

The Bible doesn't have to use a particular phrasing for us to correctly identify doctrinal truths.

For example, God is a Trinity.
Which verse says "God is a Trinity"?
There is no verse that says God is a Trinity.
But we can know that God is a Trinity through logical inference. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct, yet each are called "God" in the Scriptures.

From this (and other) examples, the Scriptures give us sufficient associations between verses to deduce correct conclusions that aren't stated explicitly.
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I mean there are examples of God being a Trinity but there aren’t any examples of someone undergoing eternal torment except for maybe the devil. However, I’m not even so sure about that given the Bible’s usage of apocalyptic language where forever doesn’t always mean forever, but then sometimes it does mean forever.
 
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49

Guest
#55
#55
Matthew 25:46

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”


Pretty cut and dried right there...
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#56
Mar 4, 2020
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#56
49 said:
Matthew 25:46

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”


Pretty cut and dried right there...
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That says only the righteous get life eternal. The unrighteous get life eternal too? 🤔

I would strongly consider that the eternal punishment is death and destruction. There’s a lot of verses about the wicked receiving death and destruction.
 
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49

Guest
#57
#57
Runningman said:
That says only the righteous get life eternal. The unrighteous get life eternal too? 🤔

I would strongly consider that the eternal punishment is death and destruction. There’s a lot of verses about the wicked receiving death and destruction.
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What does everlasting punishment mean to you? Eternal is eternal, no matter how you slice it.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#58
Mar 4, 2020
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#58
49 said:
What does everlasting punishment mean to you? Eternal is eternal, no matter how you slice it.
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Everlasting punishment means death to me. Everlasting life means life eternal and it’s a reward for the righteous only. Am I wrong?
 
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49

Guest
#59
#59
Runningman said:
Everlasting punishment means death to me. Everlasting life means life eternal and it’s a reward for the righteous only. Am I wrong?
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Eternal life is life eternal. Everlasting punishment is everlasting, else how can it not be?

Be blessed :)
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#60
Mar 4, 2020
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#60
49 said:
Eternal life is life eternal. Everlasting punishment is everlasting, else how can it not be?

Be blessed :)
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John 3:16
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Be blessed. :giggle:
 
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