Is The Earth Flat Or Round?

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Is The Earth Flat Or Round?

  • Total voters
    103
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#441
Dec 20, 2017
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#441
GaryA said:
This is a moot point - since there is no such thing as spherical measurement in this context.

All distance measurements in this context are point-A-to-point-B flat measurements - land, sea, or air - no curvature is measured - only distance.

If you map flat data onto a sphere - and then, later, you translate it back to flat to make a flat map - it does not mean that the landscape is a sphere.

For the whole process, it is only assumed to be a sphere - or, that there is curvature present.

The math may sound really good - but it is only math - and does not necessarily reflect reality.


It is pretty silly that you would try to back him into a corner with such as this... :rolleyes:

I believe it is entirely possible for him to use a map that he does not think is completely accurate albeit he still finds it to be useful.

Not to mention - if it happens to be the only thing available...

No one ever has to "admit" that a map is 'accurate' to use it. Trusting it is a whole other issue...

In this context, I believe spherical geometry is faulty - because, the curvature is assumed instead of measured.
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"silly" ... said the man who believes the earth is flat. :LOL:


Flatties should take their own measurements without using established knowlege that they reject .
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

Well-known member
#442
Sep 15, 2019
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#442
Lucy-Pevensie said:
You seem to be missing the very obvious point. I didn't say that navigation is always laid out on flat maps.
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Lucy-Pevensie said:
What I told you was that navigation is based on spherical geometry. Fact.
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If this be a fact, can you prove it? I say it is not a fact. The burden of proof is on you, as you are the one making the claim.
Lucy-Pevensie said:
No one travels without it.
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Lucy-Pevensie said:
There is no such thing as a FE map
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Lucy-Pevensie said:
.
Flat Earthers do not have a map.
They are using a globe map which has been flattened.
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Lucy-Pevensie said:
That is completely different from going out and charting the planet.
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All accurate (flat) maps are "Flat Earth" maps, as they can only be accurate if the Earth likewise is flat. If the Earth is spherical, a flat map would never be as accurate as a curved map.
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

Well-known member
#443
Sep 15, 2019
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#443
Lucy-Pevensie said:
"silly" ... said the man who believes the earth is flat. :LOL:


Flatties should take their own measurements without using established knowlege that they reject .
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Why? Most globalists are mistaken, rather than dishonest. It would only be if a globalist is dishonest that there would be reason to question (and re-measure) the measurements taken.
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#447
Aug 10, 2019
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#447
Lucy-Pevensie said:
Flatties should take their own measurements without using established knowlege that they reject .
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Moses_Young said:
Why? Most globalists are mistaken, rather than dishonest. It would only be if a globalist is dishonest that there would be reason to question (and re-measure) the measurements taken.
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The raw data is good as long as it is honest.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#448
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#448
Oriel36 said:
Although I come from a different tradition to Augustine, I share with him the concern for the misuse of scripture to promote or oppose a physical fact which links the human individual to their terrestrial and celestial surroundings. It is part of spirit/inspiration that people make the effort to enjoy the gift of God in our journey through life from child to adult where the connection between the person and physical creation is part of the connection between a person and God -

"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men." Augustine
Click to expand...
It was a Catholic who restarted the flat earth myth in our time.

Not by Faith Alone: The Biblical Evidence for the Catholic ...
Robert A. Sungenis
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#450
Aug 10, 2019
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#450
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#451
Jun 30, 2015
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#451
Moses_Young said:
All accurate (flat) maps are "Flat Earth" maps, as they can only be accurate if the Earth likewise is flat.
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Again, you demonstrate your ignorance of mapping. There is no such thing as an accurate flat map (except for a very small portion of the Earth's surface). All flat maps distort direction, distance, or both.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#452
Mar 18, 2021
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#452
GaryA said:
Out of kindness - yes.

Also, out of kindness, I will warn you that - if that is the extent of the effort you are willing to put into your own research of the topic (and, it pretty-much holds true for any topic) - you are not going to get very far in your research...

"Just sayin'..."
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When a professional cartographer produces an FE map from data form genuine oceanographic research, I'll reconsider. It won't happen because the earth is not flat. Just sayin'.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#453
Mar 18, 2021
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#453
GaryA said:
That makes two of us waiting for her to provide proof of her claim...
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Talk to any ship or aircraft navigator. There is a navigation technique known as great circle. On earth, the shortest distance between two points is a curve, not a straight line. That's because the earth is a globe. It's measurable. Since time and money are involved, where possible, vessels use the great circle course. I learned about this in the Royal Australian Navy, over 50 years ago.

There are calculators on line that can tell you the difference between straight line and great circle distances. I don't know what it will take to dispel your delusion, but maybe nothing ever will. Even when you look down from heaven and see the spherical earth, you will find a way to rationalise the truth away.
 
O

Oriel36

Member
#454
Jul 2, 2022
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#454
GaryA said:
What if he wrote this as propaganda in order to "prevent such an embarrassing situation"...?

You may not be "a great lover of St Augustine" [in these matters]; however, it sure seems that - for some strange reason - you still [automatically] believe that everything he said/says is somehow incontrovertibly true...???
Click to expand...

In our journey through life, we pick up the Eternal in creation and all those things which make our life possible and that includes a round and rotating Earth that also travels around our central star. It is honouring God in coming to appreciate the connection between our individual life and the Universe by being participants in creation and, as much as possible, exercising our productive and creative capabilities in imitation of what we inherit as the human body, the planet, the Sun, the galaxy or whatever other structures are out there. They are part of us but do not belong to us.

My Christian ancestors were great astronomers and that heritage has been lost to a bunch of empirical voodoo merchants who have no respect for that heritage with all its strengths and deficiencies. Empiricism has given rise to you bunch which operate out of the same contrived reasoning to justify attention seeking conclusions which diminish the ability of students to appreciate their planetary home. Galileo had much to say about this type of anti-social behaviour-

"I have heard such things put forth as I should blush to repeat--not so much to avoid discrediting their authors (whose names could always be withheld) as to refrain from detracting so greatly from the honor of the human race. In the long run my observations have convinced me that some men, reasoning preposterously, first establish some conclusion In their minds which, either because of its being their own or because of their having received it from some person who has their entire confidence, impresses them so deeply that one finds it impossible ever to get it out of their heads. Such arguments in support of their fixed idea as they hit upon themselves or hear set forth by others, no matter how simple and stupid these may be, gain their instant acceptance and applause. On the other hand whatever is brought forward against it, however ingenious and conclusive, they receive with disdain or with hot rage--if indeed it does not make them ill." Galileo

Christians are faced with the challenge of being caught between those who are too crude (flat Earth) and those who go on a misadventure with timekeeping (empirical science) where both refuse the accept the fact of a round and rotating planet because of contrived reasoning. They both lose the love of creation and what makes our lives possible.
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

Well-known member
#455
Sep 15, 2019
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#455
Gideon300 said:
Talk to any ship or aircraft navigator. There is a navigation technique known as great circle. On earth, the shortest distance between two points is a curve, not a straight line. That's because the earth is a globe. It's measurable. Since time and money are involved, where possible, vessels use the great circle course. I learned about this in the Royal Australian Navy, over 50 years ago.
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This is just demonstration that the maps used are inaccurate, not that the Earth is a globe. Perhaps the maps are inaccurate because the Earth is flat?

Gideon300 said:
There are calculators on line that can tell you the difference between straight line and great circle distances. I don't know what it will take to dispel your delusion, but maybe nothing ever will. Even when you look down from heaven and see the spherical earth, you will find a way to rationalise the truth away.
Click to expand...
This is simple geometry and trigonometry, but doesn't determine whether the maps inaccurate because the Earth is flat (and those creating them don't want you to know), or because the Earth is a ball and the cartographers are too lazy to map it onto a curved map. I don't buy the latter.
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

Well-known member
#456
Sep 15, 2019
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#456
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#457
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
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#457
Gideon300 said:
Talk to any ship or aircraft navigator. There is a navigation technique known as great circle. On earth, the shortest distance between two points is a curve, not a straight line. That's because the earth is a globe. It's measurable. Since time and money are involved, where possible, vessels use the great circle course. I learned about this in the Royal Australian Navy, over 50 years ago.

There are calculators on line that can tell you the difference between straight line and great circle distances. I don't know what it will take to dispel your delusion, but maybe nothing ever will. Even when you look down from heaven and see the spherical earth, you will find a way to rationalise the truth away.
Click to expand...
Thank you,
I know they reject GPS & satellite navigation so I was trying to highlight in a somewhat rudimentary fashion, how the curve
of the earth was demonstrated by sea-navigation long ago. A sextant, charts & compass can still be used by captains & sailors
as backup now. So both methods are in agreement and only work because the earth is spherical.

I don't know that any flat-navigation is ever used by anyone, to get anywhere.

We haven't even touched on the northern & southern constellations & auroras, both made directly by the hand of God.
Showing us a world of 2 hemispheres.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#458
Jul 31, 2013
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#458
Moses_Young said:
This is just demonstration that the maps used are inaccurate, not that the Earth is a globe. Perhaps the maps are inaccurate because the Earth is flat?

This is simple geometry and trigonometry, but doesn't determine whether the maps inaccurate because the Earth is flat (and those creating them don't want you to know), or because the Earth is a ball and the cartographers are too lazy to map it onto a curved map. I don't buy the latter.
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Speaking of simple geometry,
Have a look at a sunrise or sunset or moonrise or moonset some time.

Their mere observation easily and irrefutablely prove the earth is not flat.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#459
Dec 20, 2017
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#459
GaryA said:
That makes two of us waiting for her to provide proof of her claim...
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Moses_Young said:
If this be a fact, can you prove it? I say it is not a fact. The burden of proof is on you, as you are the one making the claim.
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The burden of proof is not on me. You're the ones off the edge of the map.
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

Well-known member
#460
Sep 15, 2019
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#460
Lucy-Pevensie said:
The burden of proof is not on me. You're the ones off the edge of the map.
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This is a common fallacy attributed to Flat Earth. In reality, the Antarctic ice-wall (or the firmament) would stop people falling off the edge of the map.

However, as Flat Earth is just an observation (note that no one observes a ball-Earth), the burden of proof is on those postulating ball-Earth theory, not on those simply relying on observation.

posthuman said:
Speaking of simple geometry,
Have a look at a sunrise or sunset or moonrise or moonset some time.

Their mere observation easily and irrefutablely prove the earth is not flat.
Click to expand...
Only if you first assume ball-Earth theory to be true, which is circular reasoning. If the sun or moon is blocked by the atmosphere (as some Flat Earthers theorise), this adequately explains the sun/moon rise/set. Note that if the reason for the sun/moon rise/set is that the sun or moon is blocked by the Earth (ball-Earth theory), this does not adequately explain the occurrences of sun/moon rise/set that can occur above the horizon.
 
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