Just Suppose...
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[QUOTE="GRACE_ambassador, post: 4870995, member: 3054
Suppose it were true that a person once saved could be lost again.
Suppose such a person, to gain heaven, would then have to be saved
all over again.
But suppose the person in question never did get saved the second time
and, departing this life a lost man, went finally to the lake of fire—after
having once been “saved”?
In what sense, then, was he first saved? What was he saved from? Was
he saved from the penalty of sin? No, for he did not escape the lake of fire.
Was he saved from the power of sin? No, for he fell back into sin and died
a lost man. And most assuredly he was not saved from the presence
of sin. None this side of heaven have yet been saved from that.
What was he saved from then? The answer is: Nothing at all.
He may have thought he was saved. He may have felt saved. He may
have acted as though he were saved. His friends may have thought he
was saved but, in the final analysis, he was saved from nothing.
Salvation, to be anything more than a mere term, must be everlasting.
Any person who has been saved has been eternally saved. No one is
saved until he is eternally saved. Anyone who dies in a lost condition
never was saved at all.
Does this mean we must wait until after this life is over to find out? No.
We may be saved now and know it. This is evident from such passages as
I Corinthians 1:18, where the Apostle Paul refers to “us which are saved.”
How can we be saved? “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” —that’s what to do.
“And thou shalt be saved” —that’s when you get it (Acts 16:31).
And “the gift of God is Eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord”—
(CR Stam)
GRACE And Peace...[/QUOTE]
Great post.
Before our salvation we were dead in our sin and trespass.
After we came to faith we were reborn. From death we entered the state of eternal life. To lose our salvation by our own acts would make us to overcome the will of God for us.
Ephesians 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that any man should boast.
Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
I think if we could do something to lose God's gift, it would mean God didn't foresee whom among the fallen he would call to himself to salvation would later reject his gift. And therein undo all that God did to and for us.
We'd have to then go from being alive in him to dead again in sin. And we'd have to be able to unseal what God did seal.
To lose his gift of faith....
God granted us faith.
We cannot overcome what God's will bestowed.
We may think we can come to a place where we no longer believe. However, God, who knows all things from beginning to end, would know better.
Psalm 139:4, ESV Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.
Hebrews 4:13, NLT Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, and he is the one to whom we are accountable.
I think mamakes a grevious error subscribing to the myth that we are co-committent with God in securing our salvation. And we are just as errant thinking our choice to lose faith is able to overcome God's will to bestow it.
I think this is why and where we sabotage our own sense of peace. If we start to think our acts are able to overcome God's will, ever.
"SUPPOSE
Suppose it were true that a person once saved could be lost again.
Suppose such a person, to gain heaven, would then have to be saved
all over again.
But suppose the person in question never did get saved the second time
and, departing this life a lost man, went finally to the lake of fire—after
having once been “saved”?
In what sense, then, was he first saved? What was he saved from? Was
he saved from the penalty of sin? No, for he did not escape the lake of fire.
Was he saved from the power of sin? No, for he fell back into sin and died
a lost man. And most assuredly he was not saved from the presence
of sin. None this side of heaven have yet been saved from that.
What was he saved from then? The answer is: Nothing at all.
He may have thought he was saved. He may have felt saved. He may
have acted as though he were saved. His friends may have thought he
was saved but, in the final analysis, he was saved from nothing.
Salvation, to be anything more than a mere term, must be everlasting.
Any person who has been saved has been eternally saved. No one is
saved until he is eternally saved. Anyone who dies in a lost condition
never was saved at all.
Does this mean we must wait until after this life is over to find out? No.
We may be saved now and know it. This is evident from such passages as
I Corinthians 1:18, where the Apostle Paul refers to “us which are saved.”
How can we be saved? “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” —that’s what to do.
“And thou shalt be saved” —that’s when you get it (Acts 16:31).
And “the gift of God is Eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord”—
that’s how Long it lasts (Rom. 6:23).
"(CR Stam)
GRACE And Peace...[/QUOTE]
Great post.
Before our salvation we were dead in our sin and trespass.
After we came to faith we were reborn. From death we entered the state of eternal life. To lose our salvation by our own acts would make us to overcome the will of God for us.
Ephesians 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that any man should boast.
Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
I think if we could do something to lose God's gift, it would mean God didn't foresee whom among the fallen he would call to himself to salvation would later reject his gift. And therein undo all that God did to and for us.
We'd have to then go from being alive in him to dead again in sin. And we'd have to be able to unseal what God did seal.
To lose his gift of faith....
God granted us faith.
We cannot overcome what God's will bestowed.
We may think we can come to a place where we no longer believe. However, God, who knows all things from beginning to end, would know better.
Psalm 139:4, ESV Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.
Hebrews 4:13, NLT Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, and he is the one to whom we are accountable.
I think mamakes a grevious error subscribing to the myth that we are co-committent with God in securing our salvation. And we are just as errant thinking our choice to lose faith is able to overcome God's will to bestow it.
I think this is why and where we sabotage our own sense of peace. If we start to think our acts are able to overcome God's will, ever.
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The total tonnage of your believed self righteousness would flounder a battle ship. Goodness, you are so far from Biblcal Truth in your ideology that you are barren of Holy Spirit teaching/indwelling presence....
Once saved always saved is flawed ideology taught by those who have yet to be sanctified by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. They seem quite happy to continue to sup on milk and honey, and avoid the need to mature to the point of receiving spiritual understanding of Scripture.
Ones such as you are so deep in your misguided ideology that you are pretty much a lost cause...........sad, truly sad.......
O self important sinner, why puff up yourself with the wisdom of man when you can humbly receive the wisdom of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit?
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INDWELLING PRESENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT:
Romans
8:1 .) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 .) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 .) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 .) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 .) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 .) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 .) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 .) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 .) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 .) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 .) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 .) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 .) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 .) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 .) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 .) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 .) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Romans
8:1 .) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 .) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 .) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 .) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 .) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 .) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 .) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 .) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 .) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 .) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 .) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 .) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 .) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 .) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 .) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 .) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 .) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
That would be FREE WILL.
Now, as for the Scripture they love to quote about no power able to tear us from Gods hand.......yes, that is true, but they do not properly understand what they are reading (in my opinion). Look at the Scripture passage:
Romans 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So many times I have stated that the Apostle wrote in two distinct styles: Thus Sayeth the Lord, and It would be better that, I would rather that..........these styles greatly change the scripture(s) they embody. The first is Thus Sayeth the Lord.......no argument, no debate, it is thus sayeth the Lord, and that is final. The second, however, is when Paul speaks his mind, his thoughts, feelings, opinions, and gives his advice/instructions as to what he believes would be best for believers/the Church. These ARE NOT commandments from God, they are Paul's words, and they are NOT meant to be carved in stone.
There are numerous examples of these in his Epistles. The first coming to mind is when he speaks about marriage:
1 Corinthians 7:6) But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 7) For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9) But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11) But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 12) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
Important statements:
"by permission and not of commandment"
"For I would that all men"
"I command ye, yet not I, but the Lord"
"But the rest I speak, I, not the Lord"
He clearly shows the two styles here in this passage. When reading Paul's Epistles, one has to be able to distinguish one from the other to place the proper importance on what is being said.
How does this relate to the passage in Romans? It relates because what Paul is saying are HIS BELIEFS/FEELINGS/DESIRES, and they are not the Commandment of God. As well, he NEVER states that WE can or can not separate ourselves from God, and THAT is where free will comes into the picture. IF one believes we DO have free will, then one must understand that we DO have the power to separate ourselves from God. NO OTHER POWER.......NO OTHER POWER can do that! We, however, can. Either that, or free will is a lie as the Calvinsits believe.
God/Jesus WILL NEVER leave or forsake us........Jesus said that, and it is in Scripture, and it is Truth! But that does not take away our free will to leave or forsake Him!
Folks can believe as they wish. I am simply saying why I believe as I do. There are numerous Scriptures that speak of believers "falling away" and even Christ Himself said it would happen. I believe Christ. And I also understand when Paul is writing "thus sayeth the Lord," and/or "I would rather that."
(edited to say)
Another instance where folks don't understand Paul's style is when he speaks of the grafting in of the natural branches. Won't post it now...........but folks know what it says. Dealing with all Jews being saved in the end...........This was Paul's OWN desire, and that was the context he wrote it in. And, even then, he placed a "disclaimer" in his comments............."if they continue not in disbelief."
Now, as for the Scripture they love to quote about no power able to tear us from Gods hand.......yes, that is true, but they do not properly understand what they are reading (in my opinion). Look at the Scripture passage:
Romans 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So many times I have stated that the Apostle wrote in two distinct styles: Thus Sayeth the Lord, and It would be better that, I would rather that..........these styles greatly change the scripture(s) they embody. The first is Thus Sayeth the Lord.......no argument, no debate, it is thus sayeth the Lord, and that is final. The second, however, is when Paul speaks his mind, his thoughts, feelings, opinions, and gives his advice/instructions as to what he believes would be best for believers/the Church. These ARE NOT commandments from God, they are Paul's words, and they are NOT meant to be carved in stone.
There are numerous examples of these in his Epistles. The first coming to mind is when he speaks about marriage:
1 Corinthians 7:6) But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 7) For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9) But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11) But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 12) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
Important statements:
"by permission and not of commandment"
"For I would that all men"
"I command ye, yet not I, but the Lord"
"But the rest I speak, I, not the Lord"
He clearly shows the two styles here in this passage. When reading Paul's Epistles, one has to be able to distinguish one from the other to place the proper importance on what is being said.
How does this relate to the passage in Romans? It relates because what Paul is saying are HIS BELIEFS/FEELINGS/DESIRES, and they are not the Commandment of God. As well, he NEVER states that WE can or can not separate ourselves from God, and THAT is where free will comes into the picture. IF one believes we DO have free will, then one must understand that we DO have the power to separate ourselves from God. NO OTHER POWER.......NO OTHER POWER can do that! We, however, can. Either that, or free will is a lie as the Calvinsits believe.
God/Jesus WILL NEVER leave or forsake us........Jesus said that, and it is in Scripture, and it is Truth! But that does not take away our free will to leave or forsake Him!
Folks can believe as they wish. I am simply saying why I believe as I do. There are numerous Scriptures that speak of believers "falling away" and even Christ Himself said it would happen. I believe Christ. And I also understand when Paul is writing "thus sayeth the Lord," and/or "I would rather that."
(edited to say)
Another instance where folks don't understand Paul's style is when he speaks of the grafting in of the natural branches. Won't post it now...........but folks know what it says. Dealing with all Jews being saved in the end...........This was Paul's OWN desire, and that was the context he wrote it in. And, even then, he placed a "disclaimer" in his comments............."if they continue not in disbelief."
Matthew, Chapter 26:
38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
39And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
(free will exhibited by Jesus Himself, yet people deny it....sad, just sad)
38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
39And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
(free will exhibited by Jesus Himself, yet people deny it....sad, just sad)
Depends what we are saved from as to whether we are always saved. Being saved doesn't necessarily mean you go to heaven and eat at a buffet every day. For example, look at Matthew 8.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The "children of the kingdom" as in, the kingdom of Heaven or the kingdom of God, will be cast into outer darkness. it's possible to be saved from destruction in the lake of fire, but not be allowed into the kingdom. Some children will liver forever in the "outer darkness", apparently.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The "children of the kingdom" as in, the kingdom of Heaven or the kingdom of God, will be cast into outer darkness. it's possible to be saved from destruction in the lake of fire, but not be allowed into the kingdom. Some children will liver forever in the "outer darkness", apparently.
C
Thank you for your OP, it is always uplifting to be reminded of God's love and graciousness towards us, in how He provided us with the gift of faith to believe on and in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I'm assuming by 'lost again' you are meaning that someone has to decided to abandon their faith in, and faithfulness towards Jesus? That being the case, yes, as the apostle says, there is no way back for them. They are doomed.
But the faith they once received and embraced did save them from the consequences of the sinful lives they lived leading up to their conversion. Whilst they remained in God's grace through their loyalty to Jesus, that new covenant that God provided them continued to keep them safe. Being loyal to Jesus, of course includes obeying all His commands.
So, for the hypothetical example you gave, I believe that such a person would have been saved from their past, but their action of abandoning their faith, which is akin to spitting on the Lord as He hung on the cross, effectively separated them from God's grace once and for all time, making them lost again, and to remain that way forever.
I'm assuming by 'lost again' you are meaning that someone has to decided to abandon their faith in, and faithfulness towards Jesus? That being the case, yes, as the apostle says, there is no way back for them. They are doomed.
But the faith they once received and embraced did save them from the consequences of the sinful lives they lived leading up to their conversion. Whilst they remained in God's grace through their loyalty to Jesus, that new covenant that God provided them continued to keep them safe. Being loyal to Jesus, of course includes obeying all His commands.
So, for the hypothetical example you gave, I believe that such a person would have been saved from their past, but their action of abandoning their faith, which is akin to spitting on the Lord as He hung on the cross, effectively separated them from God's grace once and for all time, making them lost again, and to remain that way forever.
Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
1 Peter 4:14
If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory, and of God, rests upon you.
John 15:21
But all these things will they do unto you for My name's sake, because they know not Him that sent me.
O unregenerate sinner why do you oppose your Maker, His eternal salvation, His Word, and His messengers?
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
1 Peter 4:14
If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory, and of God, rests upon you.
John 15:21
But all these things will they do unto you for My name's sake, because they know not Him that sent me.
O unregenerate sinner why do you oppose your Maker, His eternal salvation, His Word, and His messengers?
Thanks, I am rejoicing with you in God's Love and Gracious Goodness!
"I'm assuming by 'lost again' you are meaning that someone has to
decided to abandon their faith in, and faithfulness towards Jesus?"
"lost again" is a doctrine of men. Thus, I was not "meaning" anything.
The point of the op was "What are we Saved From":
1) Penalty of sin; 2) Power of sin; 3) Presence of sin? = GRACE And Peace...
IF God's Eternal Salvation can 'be lost' (men teaching it is 'temporary '),
Then The Merits Of The LORD's Finished Work On The Cross, is INsufficient
Payment For The 'Penalty ' of sin, 'meaning' "Christ Died In Vain," and Also
That The Following 12-Dozen Plain And Clear Passages are also "untrue,"
Correct?
God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
God's Eternal Assurance
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! + Update
"I'm assuming by 'lost again' you are meaning that someone has to
decided to abandon their faith in, and faithfulness towards Jesus?"
"lost again" is a doctrine of men. Thus, I was not "meaning" anything.
The point of the op was "What are we Saved From":
1) Penalty of sin; 2) Power of sin; 3) Presence of sin? = GRACE And Peace...
IF God's Eternal Salvation can 'be lost' (men teaching it is 'temporary '),
Then The Merits Of The LORD's Finished Work On The Cross, is INsufficient
Payment For The 'Penalty ' of sin, 'meaning' "Christ Died In Vain," and Also
That The Following 12-Dozen Plain And Clear Passages are also "untrue,"
Correct?
God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
God's Eternal Assurance
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! + Update
I apologize the "5 minute" limit got me again. Rightly Divided correctly linked.
Thanks.
Thanks.
My goodness......sad, truly sad. Here, answer these?
Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?
Do you believe Jesus is God?
Do you believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit?
If so; have you had sanctified believers gather around you, lay hands on you, and pray over you so that you would receive His indwelling presence?
From all of your comments, all I see says you are possibly saved, but I see no evidence of your sanctificaiton. Why? Because you appear to be quite impressed with yourself, and that is not evidence of Holy Spirit guidance.
1 John, Chapter 4
1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Galatians, Chapter 3
1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Luke, Chapter 15
11And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
(free will to turn from the father, and realizing his error/sin against his father, repenting and asking forgiveness, and being welcomed BACK into the fathers grace) However, had he died during his time feeding swine, he would have been lost to the father by his own choice.......
Luke, Chapter 8
5A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. (read Galatians 3.....)
8And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
There are some that will not even listen, but mock and deny the Gospel.
There are some who hear and believe, but make no effort to seek the nourishment of the Gospel in order to survive.
There are some who believe, but retain their former friends/lives and end up being choked by the deceptions of the world.
There are some who hear the Gospel, believe the Gospel, and, praise God accept Jesus as Lord of their lives and begin their life walk with Jesus learning and growing in His Word and maturing past supping on honey and milk, mature in their faith to become sanctified believers through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit...............praise God for that......
Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?
Do you believe Jesus is God?
Do you believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit?
If so; have you had sanctified believers gather around you, lay hands on you, and pray over you so that you would receive His indwelling presence?
From all of your comments, all I see says you are possibly saved, but I see no evidence of your sanctificaiton. Why? Because you appear to be quite impressed with yourself, and that is not evidence of Holy Spirit guidance.
1 John, Chapter 4
1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Galatians, Chapter 3
1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Luke, Chapter 15
11And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
(free will to turn from the father, and realizing his error/sin against his father, repenting and asking forgiveness, and being welcomed BACK into the fathers grace) However, had he died during his time feeding swine, he would have been lost to the father by his own choice.......
Luke, Chapter 8
5A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. (read Galatians 3.....)
8And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
There are some that will not even listen, but mock and deny the Gospel.
There are some who hear and believe, but make no effort to seek the nourishment of the Gospel in order to survive.
There are some who believe, but retain their former friends/lives and end up being choked by the deceptions of the world.
There are some who hear the Gospel, believe the Gospel, and, praise God accept Jesus as Lord of their lives and begin their life walk with Jesus learning and growing in His Word and maturing past supping on honey and milk, mature in their faith to become sanctified believers through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit...............praise God for that......
C
Thank you. I won’t check that link out though, because I’m confident that the Holy Spirit is able to speak adequately to this discussion, direct.
I don’t agree that ‘lost again’ is a doctrine of men, I believe it’s a warning from God. At least, that’s what I believe He has been telling me, and I prefer to stay with that understanding. Thank you for offering your opinion though.
I don’t agree that ‘lost again’ is a doctrine of men, I believe it’s a warning from God. At least, that’s what I believe He has been telling me, and I prefer to stay with that understanding. Thank you for offering your opinion though.
