Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
Please quote the verse/passage that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
oyster67 said:
1 Corinthians
15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Click to expand...
OK, a great verse that teqches that living believers will receive glorified bodies. We know from other verses that this will occur "when HE comes", meaning the Second Advemt.

But this passage doesn't mention anything about Jesus taking glrofied believers to heaven.

Why did you provide this passage, given my clear question? It seems you are seeing things that aren't there.

So again, is there a verse that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
 
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Thewatchman

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What scripture have I used is not scripture? Which scripture have I used that does not match the scripture of the bible. If you are using a cult type bible then yes it will not match up with the scripture I use but if you use a good bible it will match up.
 
T

Thewatchman

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FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said:
Please quote the verse/passage that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

OK, a great verse that teqches that living believers will receive glorified bodies. We know from other verses that this will occur "when HE comes", meaning the Second Advemt.

But this passage doesn't mention anything about Jesus taking glrofied believers to heaven.

Why did you provide this passage, given my clear question? It seems you are seeing things that aren't there.

So again, is there a verse that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
Click to expand...
Oooo
New Living Translation
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

English Standard Version
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Berean Study Bible
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

Berean Literal Bible
Behold, I tell to you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--

King James Bible
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
We all shall not sleep (die) not everyone is going to die before Jesus returnes but we ALL shall beChanged. When does this happen?
New International Version
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

New Living Translation
It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.

English Standard Version
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Berean Study Bible
in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Berean Literal Bible
in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

King James Bible
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
When does this happen every one of these translations tell you. The 7th Trump. The last trump. No where in the bible does it say Jesus comes at the 4, 4.5, 5 5.5 6 6.5 Trump IT SAYS THE 7th TRUMP THE LAST TRUMP. How are the dead here? The dead in Christ the unsaved
 
F

FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
Please quote the verse/passage that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

OK, a great verse that teqches that living believers will receive glorified bodies. We know from other verses that this will occur "when HE comes", meaning the Second Advemt.

But this passage doesn't mention anything about Jesus taking glrofied believers to heaven.

Why did you provide this passage, given my clear question? It seems you are seeing things that aren't there.

So again, is there a verse that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
Thewatchman said:
Oooo
New Living Translation
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

English Standard Version
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Berean Study Bible
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

Berean Literal Bible
Behold, I tell to you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--

King James Bible
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
We all shall not sleep (die) not everyone is going to die before Jesus returnes but we ALL shall beChanged. When does this happen?
New International Version
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

New Living Translation
It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.

English Standard Version
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Berean Study Bible
in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Berean Literal Bible
in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

King James Bible
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
When does this happen every one of these translations tell you.
Click to expand...
No, none of the translations tells us that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven. That was my request.

The 7th Trump. The last trump.
Click to expand...
People disagree as to whether the "last trump" is also the "7th trump". I, for one, am not sure. The "last trumpet" could EASILY be AFTER the 7th trumpet judgment. But it doesn't matter.

No where in the bible does it say Jesus comes at the 4, 4.5, 5 5.5 6 6.5 Trump IT SAYS THE 7th TRUMP THE LAST TRUMP. How are the dead here? The dead in Christ the unsaved
Click to expand...
I don't understand your questions here. My post was about any verse showing Jesus takings glorified (resurrected) believers to heaven.

What it clear is that the resurrection of ALL believers will be "when He comes", which is at the end of the Tribulation.

1 Cort 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

One resurrection, at the Second Advent, all believers.

Because the resurrection/glorification of all believers occurs at the Second Advent, Jesus isn't going back to heaven. He came back to set up and rule in the Millennial kingdom, which is on earth.
 
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Thewatchman

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You missed my post #3204, I mis read something And you were right on with your post. Old age mind is slippin. I am sorry
 
oyster67

oyster67

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FreeGrace2 said:
is there a verse that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
Click to expand...
Yes.

1 Thessalonians
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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oyster67 said:
Yes.

1 Thessalonians
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Click to expand...

Says clouds not heaven.
 
T

Thewatchman

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Free Grace I thank I understand what you are asking. When Jesus returns at the 7th trump the last trump He will return to earth and set up his Millennial kingdom hrer on earth. When He gather those that are here at that time we will meat Him in the air (spirit) on the Mt. of Olives where His foot on that Mountian and split it making the vally for the new city, the tempel ect. So those people will not go to heaven .
Revelation 6:
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as* they were, should be fulfilled.
 
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FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
is there a verse that clearly shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
oyster67 said:
Yes.
Click to expand...
No.

PQUOTE]1 Thessalonians
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.[/QUOTE]
The bolded words say nothing about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven. It DOES say glorified believers will be with Him forever.

Does.not.say.anything.about.a.trip.to.heaven.

People assume the bolded words mean that. But NO never says it. I believe what the Bible says.

Did you know there will be ONLY 1 resurrection, and it will include ALL saved people from Adam on?

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Red words show that Jesus received the FIRST glorified body.
Blue words show WHEN the singular resurrection will occur: which is the Second Advent.
Green words show WHO will be involved in this resurrection; all believers.

So, you need to be very careful about WHERE you place this singular resurrection on the timeline of history.

Since we know from Rev 20:5 that this singular resurrection occurs "when He comes" back at the Second Advent, to end the Tribulation, and set up His Millennial Kingdom, that is when ALL believers will be glorified. And ALL believers "shall ever be with the Lord", just as 1 Thess 4:17 says.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Thewatchman said:
Free Grace I thank I understand what you are asking. When Jesus returns at the 7th trump the last trump He will return to earth and set up his Millennial kingdom hrer on earth. When He gather those that are here at that time we will meat Him in the air (spirit) on the Mt. of Olives where His foot on that Mountian and split it making the vally for the new city, the tempel ect. So those people will not go to heaven .
Revelation 6:
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as* they were, should be fulfilled.
Click to expand...
There are several views about the "last trump" and "7th trump". I don't think it's that important. I focus on the sequence of things more than individual details. All that will be flushed out when it occurs.

In Rev 6, John saw martyrs there. They died either/or before/during the Tribulation. They will be in the crowd that accompanies Jesus when He comes back at the Second Advent.

My point was that those who are "alive and remain" when Jesus comes back will never see heaven. Because after being "caught up" in the clouds and receiving their glorified bodies, they will remain with Christ as He continues down to earth to end the Tribulation at the battle of Armageddon and sets up His Millennial Kingdom.
 
T

Thewatchman

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FreeGrace2 said:
There are several views about the "last trump" and "7th trump". I don't think it's that important. I focus on the sequence of things more than individual details. All that will be flushed out when it occurs.
My point was that those who are "alive and remain" when Jesus comes back will never see heaven. Because after being "caught up" in the clouds and receiving their glorified bodies, they will remain with Christ as He continues down to earth to end the Tribulation at the battle of Armageddon and sets up His Millennial Kingdom.
Click to expand...
Those who remain will get a new heaven and a new earth. I am not sure if the new heaven will be better than the old one but I do know the new earth will 100%better.
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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John146 said:
With all sincerity, have you? Do you believe you have the holy, pure preserved words of God?
Click to expand...
John, do you believe the Holy Word of God?

Anyone who speaks, teaches or preaches that Matthew chapter 24 is not speaking to the Bride of Christ does not abide in the Truth.


KJV - John 3:25-29

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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Thewatchman said:
Oooo
New Living Translation
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

English Standard Version
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Berean Study Bible
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

Berean Literal Bible
Behold, I tell to you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--

King James Bible
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
We all shall not sleep (die) not everyone is going to die before Jesus returnes but we ALL shall beChanged. When does this happen?
New International Version
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

New Living Translation
It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.

English Standard Version
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Berean Study Bible
in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Berean Literal Bible
in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

King James Bible
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
When does this happen every one of these translations tell you. The 7th Trump. The last trump. No where in the bible does it say Jesus comes at the 4, 4.5, 5 5.5 6 6.5 Trump IT SAYS THE 7th TRUMP THE LAST TRUMP. How are the dead here? The dead in Christ the unsaved
Click to expand...

The Scripture you posted guarantees that raptured Believers are transformed into His Gloroified Likeness AFTER the Resurrection at His Second Coming.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Carry_Your_Name said:
“Earthquake” and “mountains and islands out of their places” in that PARTICULAR
passage are largely symbolic. It’s the same as “faith can move the mountains”.
That mountains usually refer to earthly civil power, either political, economical
or institutional, the same kind of languages can be found in the OT prophecies.
Click to expand...
A mustard seed of faith moved the mountain of my unbelief :)
 
J

John146

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DavidTree said:
John, do you believe the Holy Word of God?

Anyone who speaks, teaches or preaches that Matthew chapter 24 is not speaking to the Bride of Christ does not abide in the Truth.


KJV - John 3:25-29

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
Click to expand...
That's your opinion. You shouldn't make certainties off your opinion.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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DavidTree said:
The Scripture you posted guarantees that raptured Believers are transformed into His Gloroified Likeness AFTER the Resurrection at His Second Coming.
Click to expand...
You continue to hold and promote your confused and confusing ideas. Do you even know what the Second Coming entails?
 
J

John146

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Magenta said:
A mustard seed of faith moved the mountain of my unbelief :)
Click to expand...
A little bit of information concerning the moving of mountains. In Matthew 21:21 Jesus is speaking specifically of the Mount of Olives outside of Jerusalem near Bethany.

21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

In Zechariah 14:1-9…When Jesus returns as King over all the earth, this mountain is going to be removed. Half of it will fall away in one direction, and half of it will fall away in the other direction. He’s going to remove that mountain. So, what’s Jesus saying? He’s telling his disciples that if they believe, they will be able to participate in this event, because this mountain is going to move. Pray for it. Believe it and it if you have faith and doubt not, it will be done.
 
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