Did the Father forgive them when they didn’t know what they were doing?

Personally, I don't believe that they were forgiven at the moment when Jesus prayed for them. There are several reasons why I don't believe it, and one of those reasons is the reason that you just mentioned in relation to their need to repent in order to actually be forgiven.

Here's another:

Psalm 2

[1] Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
[2] The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
[3] Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

The first three verses of this prophetic Messianic psalm foretold of the time when "the heathen" (the Roman soldiers), "the people" (certain Jews of Jesus' day), "the kings of the earth" (Herod), "and the rulers" (Pontius Pilate) would "take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed" or "against his Christ) as they joined hands together to crucify Jesus.

This is by no means my "private interpretation", but rather the plain teaching of scripture.

We read:

Acts chapter 4

[23] And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
[24] And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
[25] Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
[26] The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
[27] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
[28] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Again, the first three verses of Psalm 2, a prophetic Messianic psalm, were fulfilled when "Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles (or heathen), and the people of Israel, were gathered together" to crucify Christ. Although "the Gentiles" or "the heathen" aren't specifically named here, Jesus did tell us exactly who they were elsewhere.

We read:

Matthew chapter 20

[18] Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
[19] And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Of course, "the Gentiles" who mocked, scourged, and crucified Jesus were the Roman soldiers.

With this information before us, let's turn back to Psalm 2 to get God's actual response to the same.

Psalm 2

[4] He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
[5] Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
[6] Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

God laughs at those who have joined hands together to crucify Christ, and then he derides them, and speaks unto them IN HIS WRATH, while vexing them IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE.

Does that sound like "forgiveness" to you?

It doesn't sound the least bit like "forgiveness" to me.

God then goes on to tell these co-conspirators that Jesus will yet be his king upon his holy hill of Zion.

How can the Christ who they crucified yet be God's reigning king?

Well, we receive the correct answer to this question in the very next verse of this prophetic Messianic psalm.

We read:

Psalm 2

[7] I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Here is but one of several places in the Old Testament where we are privileged to listen in on a conversation between God the Father and Jesus Christ.

This is who is speaking to whom:

"I (Jesus) will declare the decree: the LORD (God the Father) hath said unto me (Jesus), Thou (Jesus) art my (God the Father's) Son; this day have I (God the Father) begotten thee (Jesus)." (Psalm 2:7).

Contrary to the unbiblical nonsense recorded in the Nicene Creed, Jesus Christ was "begotten" on the day ("this day") that he was raised from the dead, and this is how the crucified Christ could still be God's reigning king. Again, this is by no means my own "private interpretation, but rather the plain teaching of scripture.

We read:

Acts chapter 13

[26] Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
[27] For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
[28] And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
[29] And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
[30] But God raised him from the dead:
[31] And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
[32] And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

After addressing the ignorance of the people and their rulers in relation to Christ's crucifixion (vs. 27), Paul went on to declare unto his hearers the "glad tidings" or the gospel in relation to Christ's resurrection from the dead. While doing so, he cited Psalm 2:7, "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee", because, again, "this day" was the day that Jesus was truly "begotten" or raised from the dead.

Did Paul tell his hearers that God had "forgiven" them of their ignorance?

No, he did not.

In fact, he went on to issue to them this stern warning:

Acts chapter 13

[40] Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
[41] Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

Turning back to the second psalm, the conversation between Jesus and God the Father continues:

Psalm 2

[8] Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
[9] Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Again, this is who is speaking to whom:

"Ask (Jesus is the one being told to "ask") of me (God the Father), and I (God the Father) shall give thee (Jesus) the heathen for thine (Jesus') inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy (Jesus') possession. Thou (Jesus) shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou (Jesus) shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." (Psalm 2:8-9)

Once more, this is by no means my own "private interpretation", but rather the plain teaching of scripture.

Jesus said:

Revelation chapter 2

[24] But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[25] But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
[26] And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
[27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Jesus told those of the church in Thyatira that if they held fast, overcame, and kept his works unto the end, then he would give them power over the nations, and they would rule them with a rod of iron and as the vessels of a potter they would be broken to shivers, EVEN AS HE HAD RECEIVED OF HIS FATHER.

Well, where did Jesus receive the same of or from his Father?

He received it in Psalm 2:8-9, even as we previously read.

Finishing out Psalm 2, we read:

Psalm 2

[10] Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
[11] Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
[12] Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

In the light of everything we've already read ("therefore" - vs. 10), the kings and judges of the earth are instructed to serve the LORD with fear, and to rejoice with trembling. In other words, the crucified Christ is yet alive, and he will one day return to dash his enemies to pieces, and they need to be prepared for that day. With such being the case, they're further instructed to kiss the Son, or to make peace with Jesus, lest they perish from the way when HIS WRATH is kindled but a little.

Again, if they were already "forgiven" when Jesus prayed for them from the cross, then why the need for all of these warnings?

Anyhow, this is just another reason why I don't believe anyone was "forgiven" when Jesus prayed for them from the cross apart from genuine repentance on their own parts.

They were ignorant of the fact that the One they were crucifying was the perfect Son of God. This is the ignorance they were forgiven of. They would not have been forgiven for brutally murdering another human being unless or until they repented.

I think Jesus was simply making it possible for them to repent at some future time. If I were in Father's shoes, I'm sure I would have blasted them straight into hell at that very moment.

You would blast someone straight into hell after deeming that what they did was based upon ignorance?

They were not ignorant of the fact that they were brutally murdering another human being. That in itself will condemn a person to hell if it is not repented of. These men were not innocent babes in the woods.

Grace is only available to those who seek it.

So, the answer to my question is "yes"?

Good to know.

What you would have done is totally contrary to what God did. That should concern you and show you how wrong you are, but apparently you're good being in direct opposition to God.

To each their own.

Cain't prove it but if I were a gambling man I would put a large sum of money on the centurian soldier in charge of the crucifixation who declared "surely this is the Son of God" is none other than Cornelius.

Controversially I will say God forgave the Jewish nation that day for their sin ... a forgiveness that will be made manifest in the latter days, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

King David was forgiven his sin against Uriah ... but his life was darkened by grief and sorrow therafter.

?????
Obviously.
Thanks for your concern. Please pray for me.

I will.

Christ fulfilled all that was spoken of him in the OT, so we can go to what Christ fulfilled and learn exactly how and what he fulfilled. In the sacrificial system that Christ fulfilled and made perfect there is a sacrifice for sins they are not aware they had committed.

First off Jesus is God.
So of the crime of crucifying God's Son the soldiers were forgiven by God......

The universe is another matter altogether. It doesn't have the capacity for forgiveness. Those soldiers paid the price as did Israel for not honoring God when He came. Just like Sodom paid....the exact same price.

Israel was destroyed as well as the Temple and the place was not a nation for 1,948 years roughly and they still don't have a Temple.

So...God forgives, man might forgive some. But the universe/earth is always unforgiving.

"Cursed is the Earth because of you "
The Earth is cursed because it doesn't have the capacity to forgive. And only those who can and do forgive live forever.
When God said that creation was "very good" it's a backhanded way of saying it was Shalom. At peace and holy at the same time. Holy being "good" and "pure" and free from defect and self regulating to remain free from error.

Which means that mankind has had a measure of grace since the beginning....God's hand protects us up to a point so that we might live. Exceeding that grace is when bad stuff happens....exceeding it by not revering God or one of his designated messengers and all hell breaks loose.

God forgives
Man might forgive some
Mother Nature is unforgiving whatsoever.

What?!?

I hope that I read this wrong.

Are you saying that Israel and the temple were destroyed in 70 A.D. BY THE UNIVERSE, and not by God?

They had to acknowledge their sin and believe Jesus to be saved.. But God can and often does move people / convict people of their sin and their need for the Atonement Jesus secured to have their sins forgiven.. On the day of penticost when the Holy Spirit came down and entered the Apostles, peter preached to the crowd and convicted them of their sin of killing Jesus.. The Holy Spirit was at work in the crowd that day and 3000 souls repented and believed Jesus and where saved.. So the prayer of Jesus was answered that day and many who had taken part in His execution where forgiven.. The passage read::

(Acts 2:37-41) "¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? {38} Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. {39} For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. {40} And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. {41} ¶ Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

Leviticus chapter 5

[14] And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
[15] If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:
[16] And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.
[17] And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
[18] And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
[19] It is a trespass offering: he hath certainly trespassed against the LORD.

Under the Old Testament sacrificial system, if someone "sinned through ignorance" (vs. 15), then even "though he wist (knew) it not, YET IS HE GUILTY, and shall bear his iniquity" (vs. 17).

In other words, they needed to WILLFULLY bring a sacrifice in order to receive atonement for their sins.

Are you suggesting that this is what the likes of Pilate, Herod, the Roman soldiers, and the Jews did when they crucified Jesus?

if you are, then you're dead wrong.

They weren't sacrificing Jesus to receive an atonement for their sins, and their sins were never forgiven unless they repented of them somewhere down the line. The Apostles preached a message of REPENTANCE to those who crucified Christ.

.

Have we correctly identified "them" for whom Jesus prayed?

I ask because under the terms and conditions of the five books of Moses-- a.k.a. the
Pentateuch --there is no escape for Torah-trained murderers.

• Num 15:30-31 . . But the person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts defiantly reviles
the Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has spurned
the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, that person shall be cut off-- he
bears his guilt.

• Heb 10:26-28 . . If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the
knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of
judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

* For Jews, the "knowledge of the truth" is contained in the five books of Moses.

Was Jesus murdered? Well; Stephen seemed to thinks so, and he was full of faith and
power when speaking the words below:

"Which of the prophets did your ancestors not persecute? And they killed those who
foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and
murderers." (Acts 7:52-53)

FAQ: Seeing as how the Pentateuch provides no escape for Torah-trained murderers,
then how would it be possible for Jesus' killers to have their sins blotted out per Acts
3:19?

REPLY: By means of the very man whose life they took without cause.

• Acts 13:35-40 . .Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this man is
preached to you the forgiveness of sins; and by him everyone who believes is justified
from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

So; it was possible for Jesus' murderers to be absolved, but not thru Judaism.

• Acts 2:38 . . And Peter said to them: Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the
name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins

The Greek word translated "repent" basically means to change one's mind, i.e.
reconsider. The Jews had made a huge mistake but it wasn't beyond remedy if only
they'd follow Peter's instructions.

• Acts 13:40-41 . . Be careful then. Don't let the prophets' words apply to you. For they
said: Look on, you mockers, be amazed and die! For I am doing something in your own
day, something you wouldn't believe even if someone told you about it.

* The Greek word translated "told" is speaks of narration; which walks folks thru a story
from first to last; in detail.
_

All who have sinned crucified our beloved Savior.
When we repent of sin, we acknowledge we are lost because of it.
Eventually we realize we are forgiven forour contribution to the Crucifixion of Jesus Yeshi Yah.
Of course He was speaking of those who actually applied the nails but His mercy extended to all who believeHim and who have come to believe Him
I know I was guilty of His crucifixion until I came to believe Him, and now He is finishing what He proclaimed for us all in me, making me in His image. He is doing likewise to all who believe. No one of us is perfect in this age, but we will be, by His work within each of us. Praise God.

God is always GOOD....
God can not be bad ever because He is too busy being infinitely GOOD.

God is HOLY HOLY HOLY....
A distillation of Holiness that is highly reactive to error....IE sinful mankind.

Mankind needs some form of protection from God's holy nature...enter Jesus.

When God created the universe it was a self regulating perfect system...and declared it "very Good" which is a label applied to things that are holy. The universe has been trying to erase the error of sinful mankind ever since the fall. BUT GOD, (love that part) has had a hand protecting us from the universe applied to the whole of mankind....this protection is termed "common grace". (For lack of a better way of stating this limited measure applied to everyone)

But

It is possible to exceed this level of common grace and scriptures are filled with examples of this. The Tabernacle and Temple were mere shadows of God's throne room and throne....and these things were still holy enough to cause instant death for those mishandling them. And that's just the shadows of the true thing.

There are constants in the universe....like things that you don't do. Such as stepping on Superman's cape or disrespecting things/people that are deemed holy. Because the universe can't save you from these things.

What a load of rubbish.

Well, now that I'm back home, and I actually have a minute...

The universe didn't destroy either Israel or the temple.

God did...even as he's done in the past.

For example, Jesus said:

Matthew chapter 22

[1] And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
[2] The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
[3] And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
[4] Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
[5] But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
[6] And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
[7] But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

In this parable, "the king" is God the Father, "and HE sent forth HIS armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city"...NOT the universe.

I've heard a lot of crazy things in my life, but this one might take the cake.