Where do we find…?

Magenta · Jun 16, 2022

Get outta dodge city.

Polar · Jun 16, 2022

Thewatchman · Jun 16, 2022

We most definitely should be warning people about their fate if they refuse the gospel, even as Jesus regularly did himself.

For example, in his "Sermon on the Mount", in which Jesus, after "seeing THE MULTITUDES", "went up into a mountain" (Matt. 5:1), he concluded by saying the following:

Matthew chapter 7

[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
[28] And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
[29] For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Here, Jesus clearly told his hearers that if they didn't do what he said in his sermon, then they were like foolish men whose houses were built upon the sand and which were headed for a great fall. The multitudes "were astonished at his doctrine" which he "taught them as one having authority", and here is some of Jesus' authoritative doctrine from this very sermon:

Matthew chapter 5

[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
[23] Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
[24] Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
[25] Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
[26] Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
[27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
[29] And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
[30] And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Here, Jesus clearly warned "THE MULITUDES" (Matt. 5:1) of hell-fire if they didn't obey his authoritative doctrine.

Again, he said:

Matthew chapter 7

[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Here, while still addressing "THE MULITUDES" (Matt. 5:1) with his authoritative doctrine, Jesus clearly warned off two different "gates" and two different "trees", and how one led to life whereas the other led to destruction or to being hewn down and cast into the fire.

The Apostle Paul regularly warned his hearers as well.

In fact, here is what he said about his own ministry:

Colossians chapter 1

[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
[24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
[25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
[26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
[27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
[28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
[29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

While preaching "the hope of the gospel...which was preached to every creature which is under heaven" and whereof Paul was "made a minister", Paul not only preached "Christ in you, the hope of glory", but he also "WARNED EVERY MAN", and we should be doing exactly the same thing.

Why did Paul "WARN EVERY MAN"?

Because, unlike so many today, he knew "THE TERROR OF THE LORD".

II Corinthians chapter 5

[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
[11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Anyhow, the entire Bible testifies AGAINST what you've said here in that it is LOADED WITH WARNINGS to both believers and non-believers alike from cover to cover.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

You are right we should

Thewatchman · Jun 16, 2022

You are right that we should be sounding the alarm; We are watchman standing on the wall looking for sings of the coming of the enemy. We should be sounding that alarm to everyone, not just those that will say I am not a Christian but also to many that do call themselves Christians.

Matthew 25 ESV.

1“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lampsa and went to meet the bridegroom.b 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

Matthew 25 KJV

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

The 10 virgins represent Christians: They all have lamps; what does a lamp do? It gives of light. Jesus is the light of the world. If they are waiting for Jesus they must thank they are Christians. What do the lamps need to give off light? Oil. What type oil would have been in those lamps? Olive oil, The oil of our people. There is a difference between the virgins 5 are wise and 5 foolish. The bridegroom is slow in returning. The wise have enough oil “understanding” Why do I say oil is understanding? Oil is the fuel that makes the light shine that brings the people to the knowledge of Jesus Christ to know the order of events and even thou they slumber and sleep a bit. At midnight the cry goes out “The Bridegroom cometh” the virgins all trim there lamps. They make there light shine. 5 of the lamps shine brightly; Why? Those virgins had enough oil the others did not THERE LAMPS WERE OUT! The foolish asked give us some of your “understanding” oil. The reply you have to go to them that sell the oil “ The alarm bells should be going off in your head; God's understanding is not for sale.) So the Bridegroom comes the 5 wise virgins go with Jesus to the marriage supper of the Lamb. The 5 foolish virgins were left outside the door. So where ever the marriage supper takes place all 10 virgins are there. (so do not try and make rapture out of this) The 5 foolish virgins are banging on the door please let us in; and what does Jesus say to them “depart from me for I never know you” They thought they were Christians but sadly in the end they fell short.

You can find this separation all throughout Jesus teaching. Lets look at some other places this is spoken of.

In this same chapter you have the parable of the sheep and the goats. All the nations are gathered together and Jesus separates them. Those on the left call Him Lord when that say when did we see you hungry, thirsty, a stranger, naked . . . and not help you. Here again they thought they were Christians but they did not make it.

Matthew 7:22&23

New Living Translation
On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’

English Standard Version
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

Berean Study Bible
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
King James Bible
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Verse23
New Living Translation
But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

English Standard Version
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Berean Study Bible
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’
King James Bible
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

On judgment you are going to have those “Christians” telling Jesus we were chasing them demons all around that tent, Did you not see that man we healed his lag grow 3'' to match the other one.

We prophesied I mean we taught the people we taught them all about the rapture, we taught them we are under grace know and not under the law, we taught that the flesh body was going to be raised out of the grave. Lord we taught the people .

And what did He say to them in verse 23? I never knew you; depart from me, you beakers of Gods law, you workers of lawlessness, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 24:19

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

This verse ties into this. There is no way God would say woe to anyone with child. Jesus is returning looking for a virgin bride; Just like in the parable we have 10 virgin waiting for the Bridegroom. Here is the analogy. Jesus the bride returns after 2,022 + years to find His bride spiritually impregnated with Satan's spirit in her mind and heart.

You do not want any part of this learn to get your fruit from the right tree.

Thewatchman · Jun 16, 2022

After going through this thread I have a question for you all. I am not trying to be demeaning to anyone and I will not use names. The question is do you want the milk of the word or the meat of the word. There are some I can tell want a good T Bone and others need there mashed jar of vegetables.

1st Corinthians 3:2

English Standard Version
I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,

Berean Study Bible
I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready,

Berean Literal Bible
I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, for not yet were you able. In fact, now you are still not able,

King James Bible
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Verse 2

English Standard Version
for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?

Berean Study Bible
for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man?

Berean Literal Bible
for you are still fleshly. For where jealousy and strife are among you, are you not fleshly, and are walking according to man?

King James Bible
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Verse 3.

English Standard Version
for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?

Berean Study Bible
for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man?

Berean Literal Bible
for you are still fleshly. For where jealousy and strife are among you, are you not fleshly, and are walking according to man?

King James Bible
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Verse 4.

English Standard Version
For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?

Berean Study Bible
For when one of you says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?

Berean Literal Bible
For when one might say, "I indeed am of Paul," but another, "I of Apollos," are you not fleshly?

King James Bible
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

New King James Version
For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

Paul keeps going with this thought but this is far enough for know. I would hope that you are starting to get the point. If you want to be a Christian you need to be growing. We do not need to be at odds with one another over doctrine, which is nothing more the traditions of men that make void the word of God. Jesus said “I have foretold you all things” He will never leave us wanting or wounding about what something means. If we understand the simplicity in which He teaches. God uses symbology from start to finish in His word.

Back on topic here which do you want the meat or the milk.

Evmur · Jun 16, 2022

Thewatchman said:

I fear the Lord ... I know literally what it means to tremble at His word.

I repented my name calling , I said I was sorry [and I was] you said you accepted that ... so let's both be more Christ - like.

What does this fear of the Lord consist of in my case?

I have always feared that I might grieve away the Holy Spirit, that is His sensible presence, His presence that I am aware of and am comforted in. I cannot lose my salvation, but I may lose the experience of it, His peace, His joy, His guidance, His blessing.

My prayer life could dry up, my love for His word might diminish, He would stop teaching it to me, the word would lose it's freshness.

I would no longer sing His praises.

All these things are perfectly possible for a christian though he be saved. There are whole chapels full of christians in this condition.

It is what we may call a reverential fear.

My original statement was "God does not appeal to human emotion in the preaching of the gospel" if He doesn't appeal to human love, He certainly does not appeal to human fear. Which is what you seem to advocate.

Of course all your quotes are from the OT.

Never mind that Jesu's most usual salutation to His disciples is "peace be unto you ... fear not, only believe.

Never mind that we are exhorted to "come BOLDLY to the throne of grace that we may find succour in time of need" Our relationship with God is to be as our loving Father.

There is no more sin to separate us, don't you understand that? if you have fear John tells us it is because our love is not yet perfect for "perfect love casteth out fear"

Paul says we "have not received a spirit of fear, but of sound mind" We are to have peace with God.

Evmur · Jun 16, 2022

Live4Him3 said:

Praise the Lord

... now I am getting you mixed up with watchmen ...

Evmur · Jun 16, 2022

I am not afraid to say in preaching "the wicked will be turned into hell"

Who can complain at that? if someone is terrified by it then let them repent their wickedness.

But I am against the "turn or burn" brigade ... hell - fire and brimstone is their message.

Thewatchman · Jun 16, 2022

Evmur said:

Twit

You need to apply all the good and pleasant things Jesus and the apostles said to those who were coming to Jesus and all the dark and threatening words they used to those who were coming against them.

He doesn't say the same things to the wheat as He does to the tares. The good tree has a different prognosis to the evil tree.

The baptiser doesn't rebuke and threaten those came to be baptised, he rebukes the Pharisees who came but were not baptised. It was those who turned the apostles away who will find it more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorra.
They were to go with the message of PEACE, "peace be upon this house"

We are to go with the GOOD NEWS to EVERY creature, we are not to go preaching what will happen to those who reject it. Tell people the GOOD NEWS, that is what will cause people to come.

Have you ever counted up the number of times Jesus comes saying "fear not" ?

You address only the goats and you frighten away the sheep.

I except your apology I have made made to many mistakes and Jesus said 70x7 per day so we are good

Evmur · Jun 16, 2022

crossnote said:

Nah, nah, na ah!

How could He possibly teach us to love our enemies if that were the case? It is not the light which flees the darkness but the darkness which flees the light.

The kingdom of heaven is as the tree whose branches spread out covering the earth so that the birds made find shelter therein. All humankind is lifted up by the gospel.

crossnote · Jun 16, 2022

Evmur said:

I like the 'Nah nah na ah' part. lol,
Um possibly to confirm them in their condemnation? sorta like...

Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
(Joh 19:11)

Live4Him3 · Jun 17, 2022

Evmur said:

I'm me.

Accept no substitutes...lol.

studentoftheword · Jun 17, 2022

crossnote said:

Just to clarify -----your statement here --------God is love, but conditional -----

God's Agape is unconditional -----God Agape--(Love) has no conditions for all of His Creation ----God loves all people believers and unbelievers equally ------God loves us even with all our baggage -----because God IS LOVE

His Covenants however are conditional and we have free will to choose to accept or reject God's free gift of the Blessings or Curses ----that comes by following the law or accepting or rejecting the free gift of Salvation ------if you look at the scripture it says ---IF YOU ---Obey -----IF YOU Say ------so this says there is a condition and it also says it gives you choice -------

God who IS LOVE ==will never stop loving you even as you reject His free offer ------God says Choose --Life or Death

I say --------Now this statement you make here -----we would have to say God loves those He sends to hell------

This shows me just how many today like to Blame God for there own bad decision making----God sends NO ONE TO their Eternal Torment ----Eternal Separation from God -------People Send Themselves to HELL -----as they CHOOSE to Reject Jesus Christ who is God and who took all sins upon Himself to free us from the Judgment of sin ------

If one Rejects the SON ---They also Reject the Father and they also Reject the Holy Spirit -----as the 3 are One ------there is no HOPE for anyone who Rejects Jesus ----they themselves chose to be doomed ---NOT GOD ------

God says this ------

Deuteronomy 30:15-20

GOD’S WORD Translation

Read all -----
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy 30:15-20&version=GW

Choose between Life and Death
15 Today I offer you life and prosperity or death and destruction.
19 I call on heaven and earth as witnesses today that I have offered you life or death, blessings or curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants will live.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God will Agape us as we choose to Go to Hell all by ourselves ----His Love remains steadfast for us even as we choose Hell ----

p_rehbein · Jun 18, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Good Post. I agree.

It is also important to remember that God is a Just God! And this is the reason why those who reject God and Jesus are condemned. They chose their eternity! We all can choose our eternity! Eternal life or eternal damnation.

Still: GOD LOVES THOSE HE CREATED, as He loves all He created.

crossnote · Jun 19, 2022

p_rehbein said:

What do you do with the fact that they are condemned already?

John 3:18 NKJV
[18] "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

HatedForNoReason · Jun 19, 2022

crossnote said:

Don't understand to love our enemies. Since God hates the nonelect and leaves the nonelect to their devices. Reading Romans 1 talks about God giving the nonelects over.
I just treat nonelects as acquaintance in my life on earth.
Also nonelects have their sinful nature and God won't remove it.
I just try to forget about anything that nonelects do to me, that is bad. Let God care of everything. Get rid of any bitterness and frustration.

crossnote · Jun 19, 2022

studentoftheword said:

How do you treat the fact that God predestined some, not all?…

Ephesians 1:4-5 NKJV
[4] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, [5] b]having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, [/b]according to the good pleasure of His will,

crossnote · Jun 19, 2022

HatedForNoReason said:

First of all, ‘non elect’ is not mentioned in Romans 1.
Secondly, we don’t know who are the non elect; that is not our judgment to make.
Thidly, we were all non believers before we came to faith.

HatedForNoReason · Jun 19, 2022

crossnote said:

Romans 1 describes God's judgment on the nonelect which is giving them over.
The closer we are to Jesus 2nd Coming, the more it is revealed who is nonelect or God's elect.
By their fruits you will discern who is who.

crossnote · Jun 19, 2022

HatedForNoReason said:

I disagree...partly.

Where do we find…?

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Jesus is Lord

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