Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God.

Then why on earth would there be verbal tongue speaking in the assembly? Unless, in every instance, there is an interpreter?
You say that people are praying to God, and it's between them and God, so why be loudly vocal about it? Or even quietly vocal?

6 But as for you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7 “And when you are praying, do not use thoughtless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard because of their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

Hello

Oh don't quote half scriptures at me.

"and to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations a thorn was given me in the flesh"

You were implying that grace was given to Paul in his later years rather than the miraculous but here we see actually more grace was given to him because of the abundance of the miraculous.

Maybe you missed some of my posts on this very thing.
i agree with 1 Corinthians and the Holy Spirit that one should not speak in tongues openly, causing a disruption in the Assembly.
Praying quietly is perfect allowed whether you speak in tongues, a known language or a foreign language.

i have never liked the error of some PC churches concerning this.

Vain repetitions are indeed vain. Praying in the Holy Spirit is never vain. Praying to put on a show or be seen of men = VAIN.

Oh don't quote half scriptures at me.

"and to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations a thorn was given me in the flesh"

You were implying that grace was given to Paul in his later years rather than the miraculous but here we see actually more grace was given to him because of the abundance of the miraculous.

Grace



Are you interpreting ...speaking in tongues ....as prayer?

It is interpreted as ....worshiping rather than prayer...?

Did you know that prayer can also be worship.

Any servitude can be worship...not my point.
Please, answer the question?

Then why on earth would there be verbal tongue speaking in the assembly? Unless, in every instance, there is an interpreter?
You say that people are praying to God, and it's between them and God, so why be loudly vocal about it? Or even quietly vocal?

6 But as for you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7 “And when you are praying, do not use thoughtless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard because of their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

Did you know that prayer can also be worship.

Please give an example of grace given to Paul?

The roots of the modern Pentecostal movement were very similar to the roots of the Protestant Movement. And just as there were people involved in the roots of the Protestant movement who were wrong about some of the things they wrote or taught there was plenty that was Right about the Protestant Movement as well.

As you read the history of the modern Pentecostal Movement around the late 1800s and early 1900s you will discover that one of the most significant events that apply to "the root" of the modern Pentecostal Movement was seeking out the answer from the scriptures "what is the evidence that someone was baptized in the Holy Spirit?"

Now asking that question was not wrong. It was similar to Luther and others asking the question "what does the scripture say about what it means to be saved?"

Where the Protestant movement did a good job of finding the answer to that question in the scriptures the Pentecostal Movement did a good job of finding the answer to their question about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

They discovered that the scriptures clearly revealed a pattern that most of the accounts recorded the gift of speaking in tongues occurred when believers experienced this event. And just as the early protestants having learned that one could be saved by receiving Christ by faith, they sat about to confess their sins, and believe and by faith they reported that they had been born again much to the chagrin of the Roman Catholic Church who set about to malign them and call them ignorant heretics.

So it is in the same way, those who by taking God at his word asked for and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in Tongues and ushered in the RESTORATION of the gifts of the Spirit and the modern Pentecostal movement were and are maligned by those who do always resist the Holy Spirit and refuse to go forward in the Restoration, Reformation and continuation of the Reformed movement. The Reformed are now occupying the seat of the Pharisees, and the Roman Catholics and the Pentecostals are following the cloud as Jesus leads us toward the eternal city who's builder and maker is God.

Pull up some of the scandals surrounding Calvin. He justified killing heretics using bad interpretations from the Old Testament, as did Augustine. But there are much more scandalous things than that. You can find it in their own writings so it is not just false accusations from their opponents that we are talking about. Luther was not without fault in some of his strange ideas. As a matter of fact they and many others that were involved in the Reformation said and did things that could be used to present a stronger case for discounting the Reformation movement as corrupt roots than what you have attempted to do with finding cases of error or flaky characters in the Pentecostal movement.

However the theological question "What does the bible say about salvation" was at the root of the Protestant / Reformed movement and the answers that were discovered in scripture were what we point to and say was very much the will of God and the truth that we should embrace. And the question "what does the bible say is the evidence that someone has been baptized in the Holy Spirit, .. or "What was similar to all of these accounts where groups of believers in the book of Acts who were filled with the Holy Spirit which we call "baptized in the Holy Spirit" and the answer we discover is that they spoke in tongues, this is a valid contribution to the reformation of the church since the dark ages and that period of time when the scriptures were closed to the common people and they were told a bunch of lies about what real Christianity looked like in the first century before the corrupt leaders took over and taught their nonsense for over a thousand years of ignorance.

Therefore no amount of examples of people teaching falsehood, or weird people acting weird will discount or remove the truth of the scriptures that are being rediscovered by those Pentecostals who base their interpretations not on celebrity preachers or hyped up fads going on among the Pentecostals or Charismatics, but who base their interpretations solely on the scriptures and use proper hermeneutics to defend their scholarly positions.

Celebrity preachers, and large churches that get a lot of attention, that may get into false teaching or extremism should not be used to say "That is what all Pentecostals believe" Most Pentecostals are just as disgusted by the whack a doodles as anyone else and this is why many Pentecostals are not even using that word to describe themselves today. It used to mean that you believed that what happened on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 and all of the other accounts in the Book of Acts was still available for believers today including the gift of tongues, but now the word is associated with particular denominations that believe in dressing like the Amish and that one MUST speak in tongues to be saved, or those that handle snakes. To avoid being included with those heretics many are describing themselves as "continuationists" or "Spirit Filled" or other phrases that better communicate what they want to express.

So... when people spend time praying, asking to be filled with the Holy Spirit for service, and they report and experience of being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, we must go to the scriptures and ask ourselves is this a biblical thing? And we discover that it is. If one says that it is not, they must present their scriptural hermeneutic to discount this claim, but they can't.

The Root is clearly scriptural and the fruit of the majority of Pentecostals world wide is that of the most biblical example of godly living among all denominations and christian churches and therefore both the Root and the Fruit passes the biblical test.

Bringing up the latest error discovered in a Joel Osteen Sermon will not change this fact.

WOW! That was GOOD. Meat and two veg to keep you going all day.

"Enter His gates with thanksgiving, and His courts with praise",
yep, sounds to be worship through prayer.
best wishes

From what I have seen about this cult particularly leads me to think it is one of the most demonic. Every video I have seen of this cult their cult members are all displaying high signs of possession, even to a ludicrous degree.