Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

Feel free to follow the doctrines of men like Matthew Henry, but clearly what Paul meant is that baptism is necessary to be resurrected. You failed miserably to refute that by quoting scripture. The more you talk about quote your worthless commentaries written by people the more you fail. You have no scripture again, again, and again. You’re a false teacher and the word of God rebukes you.

Matthew 7:15-20
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Just like you make me sick.
I posted a verse that clearly stated that Jesus did not baptise anyone then you were snarky then slandered me when you posted your response and posted verses about the great commission.

Here we go

Pathetic and embarrassing

scripture neither confirms or denies the thief was baptized. Good hermeneutics is to neither add to or take away from the words of the Bible.

To be quite literal, the thief made no confession that Jesus is Lord nor did he follow any apparent conventional mode of salvation. All we know is that Jesus welcomed Him to paradise for His faith, but paradise is a spiritual location.

you slandered me so that makes you a bad example of a Christian. Me calling you out on your public sin is not slander and I didn’t talk about you to anyone else other than you. This is called you being corrected and reprimanded.

yes how stupid of me not to see that.. thanks

And yet you get this notion from that very obscure verse 1 Cor 15:29, which is about proxy baptism anyway.

And the verse says NOTHING about water baptism being necessary for resurrection.

The ONLY REQUIREMENT for receiving a glorified body is to be saved. 1 Cor 15:23. "those who belong to Him" will be in that singular resurrection and Paul makes NO MENTION of water baptism.

Then deal with my verses.

You didn’t show scripture about how to belong to Christ. It’s those who are “in Christ.” Which I have showed you repeatedly. If you reject it again all communication will break down and the discussion will halt. Why do you think I normally just don’t say anything to you?

Here we go again, hopefully for the last time.

Getting into Christ requires baptism. Belonging to Christ requires baptism. Being resurrected requires baptism. At this point you have no scriptures to stand on yet you keep complaining to me like somehow that will change the word of God. I guarantee you will tire and bored way before the scriptures change.


Romans 6:3-5
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

I agree especially when Jesus says in "And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16). Most people say they believe in Jesus and refuse to do anything written in the word of God to do. Even if it's Jesus writing...smh

FreeGrace2 said:
And yet you get this notion from that very obscure verse 1 Cor 15:29, which is about proxy baptism anyway.

And the verse says NOTHING about water baptism being necessary for resurrection.

The ONLY REQUIREMENT for receiving a glorified body is to be saved. 1 Cor 15:23. "those who belong to Him" will be in that singular resurrection and Paul makes NO MENTION of water baptism.

Then deal with my verses.
I have repeatedly. Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

This verse is about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, our being "sealed" in Christ.

Which I've pointed out over and over. Eph 1:13

I don't remember that you ever quoted Eph 1:13. What verse were you thinking of?

This is merely a statement, an opinion. What verse says this? If you mean baptism of the Holy Spirit, you would be correct.

Rather, Eph 1:13 is clear enough for anyone to understand.

"having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit". This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Not water, but baptism of the Holy Spirit. There is NO water in either Acts 10:43 or Eph 1:13.

Merely an opinion. And 1 Cor 15:29 doesn't support your opinion. It's just a very obscure verse about proxy baptism, which isn't mentioned anywhere else in the Bible. And you've hung your whole doctrine on that verse.

You are the one without any evidence.

People are placed IN Christ through "having believed and being sealed with the Holy Spirit" per Eph 1:13.

I STAND on this verse, which destroys your false charge.

OK, let's examine these verses:

v.3 is about the baptism of the Holy Spirit per Eph 1:13. Boom.
v.4 since the Greek word 'baptizo' came to be used to mean "to be identified with", we see that water baptism SYMBOLIZES the baptism of the Holy Spirit (1 Pet 3:21). iow, the believer is identified with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. Very simple.
v.5 teaches that having been planted "in the likeness of his death" (symbol), we WILL participate in the resurrection and receive a body like His.

1 Cor 15:49 - 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

So, you see, I DO have Scripture. Scripture that actually SAYS what I believe.

You clearly don’t understand the context of Ephesians 1, which is about being “in Him” in regards to predestination.

You’re using Ephesians 1:13 to say that belief alone is required to be “in Christ” but that’s not what the context of the passage says.

As you can see in verse 4, no belief required to be in Christ, only predestination required, and this occurred before God’s elect were even born.

Eph. 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Bible doesn’t destroy other parts of the Bible as you seem to think. As I just showed you in my opening comments, you don’t seem to understand the scripture you quote because you’re too focused on requiring only belief to be in Christ, to be resurrected , and everything.

The Bible doesn’t just say “believe” even though believing is absolutely a critical component of obedience to God. You may be able to isolate verses that seem to say “believe only” and then promote them, but a broader view of the scriptures confirms water baptism is required to even be born again according to John 3:5.

FreeGrace2 said:
And yet you get this notion from that very obscure verse 1 Cor 15:29, which is about proxy baptism anyway.

And the verse says NOTHING about water baptism being necessary for resurrection.

The ONLY REQUIREMENT for receiving a glorified body is to be saved. 1 Cor 15:23. "those who belong to Him" will be in that singular resurrection and Paul makes NO MENTION of water baptism.

Then deal with my verses.

I have repeatedly. Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

This verse is about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, our being "sealed" in Christ.

Which I've pointed out over and over. Eph 1:13

I don't remember that you ever quoted Eph 1:13. What verse were you thinking of?
This is a totally irrelevant reply to my post. Where do you find "predestination" in Eph 1?

It appears that you aren't reading the verse correctly then. It SAYS "having believed" and then it SAYS we are sealed IN HIM.

That's really clear.

lol. v.4 is about election being to service, which it seems very few believers understand. So I'll help you out.

1:4 - For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

Very clear. God chose us (defined in v.19 as "us who BELIEVE") to be holy and blameless. That's about lifestyle.

So v.4 isn't even about getting saved at all.

The underlined words are a parenthesis. Kinda like "who are in Him". The words define who the "us" are. As does v.19.

That is a dumb comment. Of course I don't think such nonsense.

Only because that is exactly what the Bible teaches.

I just want to apologise for the upset I caused you. It was unintentional so I am sorry.

Your brother in Jesus.
bill

Ephesians 1:13 is not a contradiction, but is in fact in line with the message initially presented in Acts chapter 2. The message presented in Acts 2:36-39 is the word of truth, gospel of salvation referenced in Ephesians. Those who believe the gospel in its entirety and obey the God-given commands associated are placing their trust in Jesus. As such they can expect to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38 clearly expresses that everyone is to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin. And they will receive the Holy Ghost as well. Some receive the Holy Ghost before, and others after they get water baptized. Obedience to the command is an act of faith in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Mankind does nothing more than believe the message and submit in obedience to it. It is God who brings about the spiritual reality of remitting the individual's sin.

Lastly, consider that Jesus' atonement was for all of humanity. However, not all will be partakers of God's grace.

Bee the peace said:
Ephesians 1:13 is more specific about the exact moment we receive the Holy Spirit: "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit."
She never suggested that Eph 1:13 was a contradiction with any other Scripture. And Acts 2 is the very beginning of the church age, and there was NO uniformity in when the Holy Spirit was given. It is unwise to use such a verse on which to base a doctrine.

By Gal 3:2 and 5 it is very clear that receiving the Holy Spirit is by FAITH, or believing. With NO MENTION of water baptism.

No, it's NOT. Acts 2 was to a unique crowd; those who SAW Jesus' miracles yet turned Him over for crucifixion. No Ephesians did that.

It is the WORD of truth (gospel) that saves those who believe it. Nothing about water baptism.

This is a direct perversion of the gospel.

Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

No mention of water here. "salvation to everyone who BELIEVES".

That crowd only.

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

The red words prove that forgiveness of sins is by believing.
The blue words all refer to Jesus Christ.

So, it is through faith in the work of Jesus Christ that sins are forgiven.

Again, NO MENTION of water baptism.

yes the word “grace “ has been redefined to make faith to Mean “ never having to do what God said will accomplish what he said it will “


When faith is the opposite it’s to hear and believe what God said is true

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

it’s not faith if we hear what he said the. Reject what he said and claim we have faith instead

the term “ grace” and all the new age books about not doing anything is destroying faith in the church

No.

The Bible only requires belief for the specific things it mentions. If it says getting “into Christ” is through water baptism in Romans 6 then that’s the truth.

Believing and baptism is required and is part of the gospel Jesus requires in His great Commission according to Mark 16:15-16 and others. To insist water baptism isn’t required even though God commands it is something you’ll definitely meet staunch opposition on for your entire life because biblically you’re wrong.

Plainly what do you think water baptism is for?

No problem Bill, I am not really upset. Thanks for taking a moment to kindly talk to me. I am sorry too if I caused you any problems. Take care and hope to see you around.

God bless,
Brother Runningman

Right. Like salvation and eternal life.

But Romans 6 doesn't say that. Eph 1:13 is the "go to" verse about how to be sealed with the Spirit, which is how to get "IN HIM". I've shared that verse with you repeatedly, yet you still don't get it, or you flat out reject the verse.

What you still fail to have is a verse that plainly says salvation is by faith and baptism.

I never said that. It ISN'T required for salvation. It IS required to demonstrate obedience and to demonstrate our UNION WITH CHRIST, which is a concept that it seems you do not yet understand.

I've said it over and over, and never tire of repeating myself.

Water baptism symbolizes the believers' UNION WITH CHRIST, in His death, burial and resurrection. It is an act of obedience, not faith.

I have NO faith at all that water baptism saves me or anyone else. And 1 Pet 3:21 doesn't say that water baptism saves. Those who think so just aren't reading correctly.

The Christian ritual of water baptism wasn't even done during Jesus' ministry on earth. It was instituted for the church, which began AFTER Jesus' ascension.

No you are the one not reading it correctly. Let me break this down for you too and let’s look at the BSB which makes it clearer in plain English. If you’re reading the KJV I can forgive you if you’ve misunderstood it. We’ll look at both versions for your benefit.

1 Peter 3:21 BSB
21And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge off a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 3:21 KJV
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

See this? Water baptism saves because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Again, if Jesus was resurrected then we will be resurrected because of a “clear conscience toward God” due to our faith in His command to be water baptized.

You’re in a corner again. Plainly tell me, does water baptism save or not after reading 1 Peter 3:21.

Water baptism cannot save anyone - Because of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

A.) BLOOD Atonement - Because of the Death/Shed BLOOD/New Covenant, Burial AND Resurrection of Jesus Christ we have forgiveness of sins = PERIOD

B.) SPIRIT Calling - John 5:24 - "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

C.) AFTER (A) + (B) comes C = outward act of faith = otward flesh water baptism = act of FAITH that began with A + B


Know the Will of God = A comes before B comes before C


Never once does the LORD or the Apostles declare that water baptism saves us.

It did not save NOAH and it cannot save any of us.