Should Churches Baptize Children?

This plea in their defense he would not have subjoined had he not believed it to be perfectly just, and one which would be of service to these infants at the bar of divine judgment. For if it is said by them with truth, We have done nothing, then the soul that sins, it shall die; and in the just dispensation of judgment by God, those shall not be doomed to perish whose souls their parents did, so far at least as concerns their own guilt in the transaction, bring to ruin.
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The presentation of the little ones to receive the spiritual grace is the act not so much of those by whose hands they are borne up (although it is theirs also in part, if they themselves are good believers) as of the whole society of saints and believers. For it is proper to regard the infants as presented by all who take pleasure in their baptism, and through whose holy and perfectly-united love they are assisted in receiving the communion of the Holy Spirit. Therefore this is done by the whole mother Church, which is in the saints, because the whole Church is the parent of all the saints, and the whole Church is the parent of each one of them. For if the sacrament of Christian baptism, being always one and the same, is of value even when administered by heretics, and though not in that case sufficing to secure to the baptized person participation in eternal life, does suffice to seal his consecration to God; and if this consecration makes him who, having the mark of the Lord, remains outside of the Lord's flock, guilty as a heretic, but reminds us at the same time that he is to be corrected by sound doctrine, but not to be a second time consecrated by repetition of the ordinance — if this be the case even in the baptism of heretics, how much more credible is it that within the Catholic Church that which is only straw should be of service in bearing the grain to the floor in which it is to be winnowed, and by means of which it is to be prepared for being added to the heap of good grain!

6. I would, moreover, wish you not to remain under the mistake of supposing that the bond of guilt which is inherited from Adam cannot be cancelled in any other way than by the parents themselves presenting their little ones to receive the grace of Christ; for you write: As the parents have been the authors of the life which makes them liable to condemnation, the children should receive justification through the same channel, through the faith of the same parents; whereas you see that many are not presented by parents, but also by any strangers whatever, as sometimes the infant children of slaves are presented by their masters. Sometimes also, when their parents are deceased, little orphans are baptized, being presented by those who had it in their power to manifest their compassion in this way. Again, sometimes foundlings which heartless parents have exposed in order to their being cared for by any passer-by, are picked up by holy virgins, and are presented for baptism by these persons, who neither have nor desire to have children of their own: and in this you behold precisely what was done in the case mentioned in the Gospel of the man wounded by thieves, and left half dead on the way, regarding whom the Lord asked who was neighbour to him, and received for answer: He that showed mercy on him. Luke 10:37
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102098.htm

4. Being thirty years old when He came to be baptized, and then possessing the full age of a Master, He came to Jerusalem, so that He might be properly acknowledged by all as a Master. For He did not seem one thing while He was another, as those affirm who describe Him as being man only in appearance; but what He was, that He also appeared to be. Being a Master, therefore, He also possessed the age of a Master, not despising or evading any condition of humanity, nor setting aside in Himself that law which He had appointed for the human race, but sanctifying every age, by that period corresponding to it which belonged to Himself. For He came to save all through means of Himself — all, I say, who through Him are born again to God — infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men. He therefore passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, thus sanctifying infants; a child for children, thus sanctifying those who are of this age, being at the same time made to them an example of piety, righteousness, and submission; a youth for youths, becoming an example to youths, and thus sanctifying them for the Lord. So likewise He was an old man for old men, that He might be a perfect Master for all, not merely as respects the setting forth of the truth, but also as regards age, sanctifying at the same time the aged also, and becoming an example to them likewise. Then, at last, He came on to death itself, that He might be the first-born from the dead, that in all things He might have the pre-eminence, Colossians 1:18 the Prince of life, Acts 3:15 existing before all, and going before all.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103222.htm

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3007.htm

Lots at this link, too long to post https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2912.htm

Canon 110. (Greek cxii. bis)
That infants are baptized for the remission of sins

Likewise it seemed good that whosoever denies that infants newly from their mother's wombs should be baptized, or says that baptism is for remission of sins, but that they derive from Adam no original sin, which needs to be removed by the laver of regeneration, from whence the conclusion follows, that in them the form of baptism for the remission of sins, is to be understood as false and not true, let him be anathema.

For no otherwise can be understood what the Apostle says, By one man sin has come into the world, and death through sin, and so death passed upon all men in that all have sinned, than the Catholic Church everywhere diffused has always understood it. For on account of this rule of faith (regulam fidei) even infants, who could have committed as yet no sin themselves, therefore are truly baptized for the remission of sins, in order that what in them is the result of generation may be cleansed by regeneration.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3816.htm

I know many Catholics whoose lives contradict what you wrote Brother. They all have dedicated their children via Baptism and all of them Discipline their Children.

There is a big difference. Baptism in the RCC is for forgiveness of sins and that child will grow up thinking they have eternal life because they were baptized as an infant. Here’s a quote directly from Catholic Answers website:

“Since the New Testament era, the Catholic Church has always understood baptism differently, teaching that it is a sacrament which accomplishes several things, the first of which is the remission of sin, both original sin and actual sin—only original sin in the case of infants and young children, since they are incapable of actual sin; and both original and actual sin in the case of older persons.”

Disciple their children in scripture, or according to the RCC? Another big difference.

Disciple their children in scripture, or according to the RCC? Another big difference.

FYI I said "personal relationship did not happen at child baptism but when one comes to the understanding of their need to be forgiven and repent."


I said nothing of discipline but of relationship. One must have with the Lord Jesus Christ. Being catholic, baptist pentecostal means nothing without a personal relationship with the Lord through repentance and faith is Christ Alone. Saved by Grace through faith not of works lest any man should boast.

NO!

Circumcision was a part of the Law of Moses, but did not necessarily mean that those who were circumcised were obedient to the rest of the Law or had genuinely repented and believed God. So that cannot be used as a parallel to believers' baptism. As noted in Acts 2:38, "Repent and be baptized" is what the Gospel demands. And since infants and little children cannot truly understand what this means, they cannot properly receive believers baptism. (There are of course exceptions to little children, but infants definitely not). And this condition is spelled out in Acts 8:37 (which has been removed from all the modern language bibles).

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (Acts 8:36,37)

op: baptize babies?
Wrong question: baptize adults? Depends, which Dispensation are we
in today? i.e.:

1) Dispensation of prophecy and law = Yes, baptism of repentance for
the remission of sins/induction into the Israeli priesthood
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25)

Full study: 12 baptisms
prophecy/law

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

2) Dispensation Of Mystery And GRACE = No more water, since God
Teaches Only ONE Baptism (Ephesians 4:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13),
For The Body Of Christ, us, Today.

3) man's dispensation of Confusion exists for Many who believe
in the Judeo/christian Combo theology of 1 + 2 = 3, with these
results:

a) believe AND be baptized {i.e. immersion to contact their Christ's blood}?

b) immersion with a symbolic interpretation?

c) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?

d) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?

e) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in their traditional assembly?

f) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion washing away their original sin?

g) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some covenant?

h) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their parent's custody that they promise to raise them right? {into Mass Confusion?}

i) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?

j) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever traditional reason religion "can come up with"?

k) immersion of young and middle-aged women 'similar' to worldly/ungodly 'wet t-shirt' contests?

l) immersion Discriminates Against ALL "those who CANNOT 'obey' this ritual" ie: the hospitalized, the bedridden, the homebound, the invalids, the traumatized, etc.

Divine NOTICE!:
God is Certainly 'NOT the author' (1 Corinthians 14:33) of all this
"carnal DIVISION" which is similar to what Paul addresses in
(1 Corinthians 1:9-17), Correct?

Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Solves this Confusion of water problem,
and thus, Since no adults are water baptized Today, Under GRACE, then:


GRACE And Peace...

Baptism is a new birth.
It is the outward revelation of what is happening in the heart. The Spiritual change that happens when you give yourself to Jesus and live for the Spirit not the flesh.

Babies and people that are not able to make this decision should not be baptised.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

You do understand that when the LORD said: "born of water" he was not speaking of water baptism.

The LORD never once mentions water baptism in John 3:1-21 in his discourse with Nicodemus.

“Baptism is a new birth.”

yep it’s the beginning of a new life having remission of sins left behind and not carrying thier weight anymore a brand new creature through baptism a clear conscience towards God, a brand new spirit like a new born baby pure and clean and even a descendant now of Abraham born again as heirs tonthe promises of God through Jesus Christ

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

…Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

….For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:8, 16, 27-29‬ ‭

one body ,one church , one kingdom baptism being where neither Jew or gentile is born but where Gods children are born again. The new birth who both and first Jew and then gentile both partake of being born new creatures in Christ

You talk about faith. Paul preached against circumcision for the Galatians, because they were believing that it was part of their salvation. But the same Paul also circumcised Timothy, in accordance with his faith and so as not to hinder the preaching of the gospel to the Jews. I think baptism, just like circumcision, can be done for good reasons, and bad.

If parents baptise their children as a sign of their faith in, or obedience to God, I don't see a problem with this (as the example of circumcision in the Old Testament). However, if parents baptise their children because they believe it is required for salvation, I think better for these parents not to baptise. Note also that baptism means immersion, so a sprinkling of water isn't a real baptism, anymore than a haircut can be a real circumcision, whatever name you want to give it.

While I agree that there are health benefits associated with circumcision on the 8th day, I still think the symbolism was the main reason behind the circumcision law, rather than the biological reasons. The bible has a number of practices with health benefits, but these don't ever seem to be the focus - moreso the holiness and symbolism aspects. The number 8 in the bible symbolises renewal (e.g. the eighth day is the beginning of a new week), and circumcision itself was symbolic of cutting off the old man (seed of Adam) and beginning with the new man (Christ - the seed of the woman).

One might similarly argue that it is healthy to be baptised, as washing makes one clean. Whilst true, I think this is a side benefit rather than the reason for the sign.