Reconciling Matthew 24 and Revelation 6

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Runningman

Banned
#21
Mar 4, 2020
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Runningman said:
Many things I could address here and maybe, as time allows, I'll speak to each one.

First, it depends on what you mean by the gospel being preached to "all nations." If the book of Romans was written in 57 CE and we are in 2022 CE now, then that means that ~1,965 years ago Paul believed the gospel had already been made known to all nations from his perspective.

Romans 16:25,26 KJV
25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

This was more like "all the nations" Paul was able to physically get to, not literally all nations and people on planet Earth.

It's my belief that the gospel being preached to all nations is a prophecy and there isn't really a precise metric we have been given whereby to determine what constitutes getting a gospel to a nation. We are not tagging and cataloging each person the gospel is preached to. Therefore, this is probably completed by divine providence:

Revelation 14:6 KJV
6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

So to preach the gospel to every nation it must include all on the earth, every nation, all different kinds of people, and in every possible language.
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Furthermore, I might add, some people have been born and died without every knowing the gospel. Therefore getting the gospel to every nation might mean just getting the gospel to the majority of people who happen to be alive at the time. You're either going to need hundreds of thousands of missionaries invading every country, the use of technology, or someone like an angel appointed by God to this task.
 
XavierJesusLovesIndia

XavierJesusLovesIndia

Banned
#22
Nov 26, 2021
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#22
Agreed, Runningman.

Beckie, another passage to consider is from Rev 7:

"The Great Multitude in White Robes
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God"

In other words, not only will the Gospel be preached in every nation, but people from every nation, tribe, people and language, WILL BE SAVED. That imho clearly hasn't happened yet.

Here's a source: "It is estimated that of the 7.75 billion people alive in the world today, 3.23 billion of them live in unreached people groups with little or no access to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. According to Joshua Project, there are approximately 17,446 unique people groups in the world with 7,400+ of them considered unreached (over 41% of the world’s population!). The vast majority (85%) of these least reached groups exist in the 10/40 window and less than 10% of missionary work is done among these people. Watch this brief video to learn more!"

Taken from: https://globalfrontiermissions.org/...oples-and-their-role-in-the-great-commission/

 
JeffA

JeffA

Minstrel
#23
Mar 31, 2022
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#23
Runningman said:
It's my belief that the gospel being preached to all nations is a prophecy and there isn't really a precise metric we have been given whereby to determine what constitutes getting a gospel to a nation.
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Exactly!
So Jesus' words could have been fulfilled to the extent that he expressed. We can't claim that it means "every single living soul".
I would bet that there are still people here in the USA that have not heard the Gospel (and never will).
For all intents and purposes, I believe that the Gospel has been a witness to all nations.
I would call this one "fulfilled".
 
JeffA

JeffA

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#24
Mar 31, 2022
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#24
soberxp said:
If I don't try to understand God's word, how can I understand God's word:unsure:
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I never said "don't try to understand".
In fact, we should diligently seek understanding of scripture.
I am saying to NEVER think that you have FULL understanding.
If one thinks that, then they cannot learn.
 
JeffA

JeffA

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Mar 31, 2022
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soberxp said:
Have you ever considered that there is no order of these seals? In fact, these seals occur at the same time. I think it may be easier to understand.
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The seals are in order. They are numbered.
It really doesn't matter if they were opened one right after another, does it?
At least not the first 5 seals.
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#26
May 3, 2018
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JeffA said:
The seals are in order. They are numbered.
It really doesn't matter if they were opened one right after another, does it?
At least not the first 5 seals.
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There may be a chronological order for the opening of the seals, but I think the content of the seals describe the past, present and future, and runs through the old and New Testament of the whole Bible.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#27
Jul 18, 2017
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#27
JeffA said:
This topic, specifically is Matthew 24:3-14 and Revelation 6:1-11
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There is clearly a correspondence between these two passages. The first five seals had already been opened after Revelation was written. So each of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse correspond to conditions which have occurred AND CONTINUED until now.

RIDER ON WHITE HORSE = false Christs

RIDER ON RED HORSE = wars

RIDER ON BLACK HORSE = famines, pestilences, earthquakes

RIDERS ON PALE HORSE = death and destruction
[Note: Death and Hades (not hell) are personified in Revelation]

FIFTH SEAL = persecution and martyrdom of Christians

The events of the 6th and 7th seals are for the future, which may not be too far away.
 
JeffA

JeffA

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#28
Mar 31, 2022
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#28
Solar Flare, Micro-Nova, Asteroid, Comet, Pole shift, Nuclear War, "Aliens".
These are only a few things at God's disposal to make the Mountains Flee!
This world is moving ever closer (and faster, like birth pangs) to a tipping/breaking point.
Prophecy warns us. The world economy is broken.
Debt cannot continue to be increased at an ever-accelerating rate.
The NWO is on the rise. The "Great Reset" is coming.
These things are a clear and present danger. Satan rules this world.
The time to believe is NOW.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
 
JeffA

JeffA

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#29
Mar 31, 2022
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#29
soberxp said:
There may be a chronological order for the opening of the seals, but I think the content of the seals describe the past, present and future, and runs through the old and New Testament of the whole Bible.
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No one in Heaven was WORTHY to open the seals until the Lamb of God (that's Jesus) became worthy through his resurrection.

As I posted before, the four horses are mentioned in Zechariah. He explains their purpose, as well.
Basically, these are spirits that go about the earth creating "conditions" that God wants.
 
JeffA

JeffA

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#30
Mar 31, 2022
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#30
Nehemiah6 said:
There is clearly a correspondence between these two passages. The first five seals had already been opened after Revelation was written. So each of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse correspond to conditions which have occurred AND CONTINUED until now.

RIDER ON WHITE HORSE = false Christs

RIDER ON RED HORSE = wars

RIDER ON BLACK HORSE = famines, pestilences, earthquakes

RIDERS ON PALE HORSE = death and destruction
[Note: Death and Hades (not hell) are personified in Revelation]

FIFTH SEAL = persecution and martyrdom of Christians

The events of the 6th and 7th seals are for the future, which may not be too far away.
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I agree mostly.
I see the White Horse as the going forth of the Gospels (White = Righteosness, Stephanos = overcoming/winning/conquering).
Still, this corresponds to the warning Jesus gave to "not be deceived" during this seal's duration.

The fifth seal is giving the white robes to the Martyrs and telling them to wait a short while.
I think this sets a marker for the time of the "Tribulation Saints" to begin.
It is important but vague, to me, as to the specific significance of the seal.
I do think it somehow separates the "old saints" from the "new saints".

But, yes, this has been ongoing since Jesus defeated death (for us, no less!)
 
soberxp

soberxp

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#31
May 3, 2018
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#31
RIDER ON WHITE HORSE = antichrist and Christ

They all win and win, The Antichrist controls the world, and Christ controls God's electors.

but who can really defeat God?

So RIDER ON WHITE HORSE = xxx xxx xxxxxx
 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#32
Feb 15, 2022
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#32
soberxp said:
Maybe we all misunderstood the meaning of this sentence,
If God's words spread to any corner of the world, then The old world is over.
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Mat 24:14: "14 And this Gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. " This verse does not say end of the world
 
soberxp

soberxp

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#33
May 3, 2018
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#33
Beckie said:
Mat 24:14: "14 And this Gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. " This verse does not say end of the world
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I mean, it's the beginning of a new order under God and the end of the old order under Satan.
 
Beckie

Beckie

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#34
Feb 15, 2022
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JeffA said:
Absolutely!
I get your point but we know that God doesn't have "plan B" :).
When Jesus defeated death, Satan knew he had lost his argument with God.
Pride goeth before a fall. (And WHAT a fall!)
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Many christians who are of the dispensational view that the Jews had thee choice. Had they not rejected Christ there would have not be the 'gap' in Danial's 70 years . I do not accept there is a gap. Had the Jews accepted Christ there would be no 'church' there would be no Body of Christ, which christians today are. The Cross the Body of Christ etc was and is the plan of God , We are told

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

God has us covered
 
Beckie

Beckie

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#35
Feb 15, 2022
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#35
soberxp said:
RIDER ON WHITE HORSE = antichrist and Christ

They all win and win, The Antichrist controls the world, and Christ controls God's electors.

but who can really defeat God?

So RIDER ON WHITE HORSE = xxx xxx xxxxxx
Click to expand...
Yet Jesus says Mat_28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#36
Feb 15, 2022
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#36
soberxp said:
RIDER ON WHITE HORSE = antichrist and Christ

They all win and win, The Antichrist controls the world, and Christ controls God's electors.

but who can really defeat God?

So RIDER ON WHITE HORSE = xxx xxx xxxxxx
Click to expand...

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
 
JeffA

JeffA

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#37
Mar 31, 2022
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#37
Beckie said:
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
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YES!
This is none other than Jesus Christ Himself and in all His Glory!

However,
The White Horse of the first seal is not Jesus.
This rider is given a Stephanos (and no other crown).
He was sent forth to "conquer" or "overcome". I believe this is the evangelizing spirit.
I believe that it is the spirit helping to spread the Gospel.
Jesus warns the disciples to not be deceived.
Jesus said that many would come in His (Jesus') name and say that He (Jesus) is Christ, yet will deceive many.
These people are False Prophets. They pretend to be Christian. They probably will Think they are Christian.
They will say "look here" or "look there". Do not believe them.

The same 4 horses described in Revelation were spoken of in Zechariah and revealed their purpose.

Zech 6:5
5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
 
Beckie

Beckie

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#38
Feb 15, 2022
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#38
I so disagree :(Rev_6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
 
Beckie

Beckie

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#40
Feb 15, 2022
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#40
stephanos
stef'-an-os
From an apparently primary “stepho” (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively: - crown.
 
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