Doctrine of Unconditional Election

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This simple clear statement of Jesus makes the process of salvation so clear, God makes the first move. He draws.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Mankind in the Garden had everything but that was not enough mankind wanted control and by doing so he lost what had been given to him.

Your are correct i should have said false charge...

Your are correct i should have said false charge...

Thanks for clarifying your opinion.

Nope. The Greek for "the many" literally means "the masses".

Do you believe that MOST people will be saved? Read Matt 7:14.

If "the many" means "less than all", then it SURELY MUST mean "most" or "vast majority". Which YOU KNOW very well cannot be true.

In case I haven't been clear, the Bible's use of "faith" is in the sense of trusting apart from experience.

What the demons "believe" in James 2:19 isn't about trust in any sense. It's about what they know from experience.

So, there is NOTHING about th "faith of demons" in the Bible anywhere, in spite of all the preachers and teachers who use that silly phrase.

Once again a calvinist quotes 1 verse but leaves out the very next verse, which EXPLAINS who will come to Jesus. And it isn't about unconditional election.

v.45 - It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Red words state the facts that God has provided facts to everyone. This is what Romans 1:19-20 is about. Because everyone has been taught by God, no one has an excuse. v.21

Blue words describe what some from the "all" do: listen and learn from the Father.

Green words is the result of listening and learning from the Father; coming to Jesus.


Did you read v.9 and v.23?

v.9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
v.23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

The KEY to understanding v.10-18 is found in v.10 in the phrase, "it is written". Know what that refers to? Paul selected 6 OT verses to demonstrate the fact of v.9. iow, Paul listed a variety of things (v.10-18) that show that all are under the power of sin.

Once having understood that, v.10 and 11 are quotes from Psa 14:1-3, which is about the fact that atheists claim there is no God. So obviously "none of them will seek after God".

To apply v.11 to the entire human race is a big mistake. In fact, the Bible recognizes that there are people who DO SEEK God.

Acts 17:27 - God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

The red words refer back to v.26 - From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

iow, God created mankind (all the nations) to inhabit the whole earth, and He determined the WHEN and WHERE each person would be placed. Then, v.27 tells us WHY God did this. So they would seek Him and find Him. Not that everyone does. But that is because everyone is free to make their own choices.

Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.


I disagree. Man simply rebelled, and it wasn't for control. In fact, God gave all control of the garden to man. Read Genesis. It was Satan who deceived the woman who wanted control.

And that isn't "faith OF". That's obedience.

"The Greek for "the many" literally means "the masses".

No, it doesn't, it means, NOT the masses, but many -

polys

1. many, much, large

"Do you believe that MOST people will be saved? Read Matt 7:14."

I have no way of knowing that.

We do know this however:

[Rev 7:9 KJV]
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

"If "the many" means "less than all", then it SURELY MUST mean "most" or "vast majority". Which YOU KNOW very well cannot be true."

"surely must"? Boy, that's a stretch -- and only Freegrace's would attempt to make it. Where in the Bible, did you find that? See Rev 7:9 above for clarification of the "many".

Huh?

sure it was control man wanted control over what he ate.

More of the Words of Jesus which does not change the the clearness of verse 44

Yes, it is. Did you miss the verses I posted regarding Christ's faith? BTW faithfulness and obedience aren't mutually exclusive - regarding salvation, Christ's faithfulness was obedience's end result. In any event, what matters is that Christ was faithful, and because He was, His offering was accepted by God the Father.

Say John146 - Are you discounting the lessons of Scripture. In other words, are you attempting to dismiss Hebrews because it was written to Jewish believers?

By this logic, if you are, then we should dismiss the entirety of the Old Testament. After all, it was written to Israel and not the Gentile nations.

I hope I am reading you wrong.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be complete, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Yes, it is. Did you miss the verses I posted regarding Christ's faith? BTW faithfulness and obedience aren't mutually
exclusive - regarding salvation, Christ's faithfulness was obedience's end result. In any event, what matters is that Christ was faithful, and because He was, His offering was accepted by God the Father.

OK, you are free to make your own choices about what you believe, but I gave you facts that prove otherwise.

Apparently you don't understand WHY Adam ate the fruit. It was the woman who was tricked (deceived) by Satan to eat it. And it was the woman who offered it to Adam. He ate it because he chose the woman over God and His plan. Plain and simple.


I see. So you are just trying real hard to negate the clarity of v.45. Go ahead. God gave you the freedom to choose what you will believe.

What you still don't understand, apparently, is that Christ's obedience still doesn't save anyone. His obedience unto death made our salvation possible, but doesn't save.

Christ's faith, which is God's righteousness, is given to them that believe. The faith of Jesus Christ justifies the believer.

In any event, calvinists cannot prove that God is the cause of a person believing. The Bible says that man believes from the heart, in Rom 10:10. And it doesn't involve God forcing that heart to believe.

I am not trying to negate anything just posted the Scriptures ...

Once again i have never studied any of Calvin's writings . I have studied Scofield and his bible .

Read much of the dispensational teachings . Had i studied Calvin's work i would most likely say thank you when someone tried to use the word Calvinist as a slam.

About 30 years ago i was kicked out of "chats' for posting Scripture your posts are no different.

I full well know it was Eve who ate first and she got Adam to eat the fruit. I mistakenly thought a grown man would understand the word man to mean mankind, i even used the word mankind a couple times .. sheesh

No, those whom God would save were chosen to such by God at the foundation of the world. They become saved for one reason only:
that God specifically selected them to it, and for no other reason.

God's promise made to Abraham established and guaranteed that salvation: since it was God's promise,
it was also (and only) God's responsibility to bring it to fruition, which He did through Christ.

[[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[Gal 3:8 KJV] 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

I can prove it

[Phl 1:29 KJV]
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

[1Pe 1:20-21 KJV]
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV]
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

When someone is saved and born again their heart becomes changed by the Holy Spirit. Only then can they believe from the heart:

[Heb 10:16 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;