Who and/or what attacked Job and his family?

know1 · Apr 24, 2022

Was it the devil, God, someone, and/or something else? Or was it a combination?
And why would I ask such a ridiculous question, you might wonder mockingly?

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

We all assume, it was the devil only who attacked Job until you read....

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

In the above accounts, you have the devil telling God to put forth His hand against Job, and in chapter 2, verse 3, God said the devil moved His hand against Job.
So what do you think actually happened?
Who smote Job, his family, and all he had?

Subhumanoidal · Apr 24, 2022

know1 said:

Was it the devil, God, someone, and/or something else? Or was it a combination?
And why would I ask such a ridiculous question, you might wonder mockingly?

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

We all assume, it was the devil only who attacked Job until you read....

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

In the above accounts, you have the devil telling God to put forth His hand against Job, and in chapter 2, verse 3, God said the devil moved His hand against Job.
So what do you think actually happened?
Who smote Job, his family, and all he had?

Movedst does not mean move. It means to entice or seduce. So God told Satan, essentially, you tried to urge me to harm Job. But then we see Satan went forth and smote Job in verse 7.

know1 · Apr 25, 2022

Subhumanoidal said:

Yes, I can see how you might interpret that, but if you look at it a little closer, it was not the devil inciting God, but God inciting the devil to afflict Job. Remember, it is written,
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
And what you are suggesting, the way I see it is, that God was saying the devil tempted Him to do evil against Job.
What I see God doing was to just letting the devil know that the shields protecting Job, are down.
Do you really think God was incited, prompted, or urged to afflict Job, seeing how upright God said He was?
If that were the case, wouldn't God not only be unjust, but a hypocrite?
What I am suggesting is that God is the one who caused some of the destruction by His Spirit.
It is written, "not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts."
The devil used the power and authority that was given to Adam to subdue the Earth and all that is in it.
Was that power and authority of and from God or of and from the devil?
When Jesus told the disciples, "I give unto you power ..", was that the same kind of power Jesus used to still the storm and the seas? And why was Jesus angry with the disciples when they failed to still the storm themselves?
I believe God had a hand in the affliction of Job and his family, simply because he is the power of the air of both blessings and cursings, for both good and evil.
And why would I even suggest this? For a lot of reasons, but one of them would be, both death and life is in the power of the tongue..
Which would also suggest the devil did not act alone, but man here's the devil power and authority to work on Job and his family, through curses.
Similarly to what they left did with Balaam, trying to curse Israel. It wasn't because they were superstitious, it was because they knew Balaam's word was with power and would come to pass.
And also notice how God used Moses to afflict Egypt. That was God's hand afflicting Egypt through all those plagues. But he used Moses and Aaron to get the job done. The same would apply to Job's situation. A witch or warlock had to have cursed Job to allow the devil to afflict Job, some of which might have been by the hand of God.
As far as I can tell, the devil cannot do anything in the natural world without being given both power and authority through a human being.

LactoseIntolerant · Apr 25, 2022

know1 said:

Job is a gentile prophet who was contemporary with Abraham (jewish lore). Job was a righteous man as with Abraham. However, while Job was just some guy with Godly rituals, Abraham was family. That is why God does not interfere. Job was not family. Abraham and Sarah was on a whole different level of intimacy.

Job 1:7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? ....

I will paraphrase
The Lord asked the question first. "What are you doing here? "
Devil say "Wandering to and fro spreading "knowledge""
Lord says (accuses) "You've been looking at the guy I know Job. You know the upright man who fears Me."
Devil answers back "He only fears you because of the benefits he derives from worshipping you."
Lord answers "Wayward son, just because you have power does not mean you should use it. Don't harm a hair on his head, hear Me."

God gave no Consent to the devil, but extended His Protection of Job's existence. Job was an acquaintance. Abraham was very different in the Eyes of God. There are perks being the friend of God.

pottersclay · Apr 25, 2022

The above comments astound me i guess the story of job is seen in many diffrent ways.
It also makes me sad to think that some dont pay attention to detail.

NotmebutHim · Apr 25, 2022

God was the ultimate cause of Job's suffering, because He allowed Satan to do what he did to Job.

However, God cannot be charged with sin.

I think part of the reason why God allowed Satan to do that was to show Job that He (God) was in charge of everything, even Job's life.

Hence God's questioning of Job in the last four chapters of the book.

Job trusted in his own integrity, instead of trusting in God.

Subhumanoidal · Apr 25, 2022

know1 said:

Yes, I can see how you might interpret that, but if you look at it a little closer, it was not the devil inciting God, but God inciting the devil to afflict Job. Remember, it is written,
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
And what you are suggesting, the way I see it is, that God was saying the devil tempted Him to do evil against Job.
What I see God doing was to just letting the devil know that the shields protecting Job, are down.
Do you really think God was incited, prompted, or urged to afflict Job, seeing how upright God said He was?
If that were the case, wouldn't God not only be unjust, but a hypocrite?
What I am suggesting is that God is the one who caused some of the destruction by His Spirit.
It is written, "not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts."
The devil used the power and authority that was given to Adam to subdue the Earth and all that is in it.
Was that power and authority of and from God or of and from the devil?
When Jesus told the disciples, "I give unto you power ..", was that the same kind of power Jesus used to still the storm and the seas? And why was Jesus angry with the disciples when they failed to still the storm themselves?
I believe God had a hand in the affliction of Job and his family, simply because he is the power of the air of both blessings and cursings, for both good and evil.
And why would I even suggest this? For a lot of reasons, but one of them would be, both death and life is in the power of the tongue..
Which would also suggest the devil did not act alone, but man here's the devil power and authority to work on Job and his family, through curses.
Similarly to what they left did with Balaam, trying to curse Israel. It wasn't because they were superstitious, it was because they knew Balaam's word was with power and would come to pass.
And also notice how God used Moses to afflict Egypt. That was God's hand afflicting Egypt through all those plagues. But he used Moses and Aaron to get the job done. The same would apply to Job's situation. A witch or warlock had to have cursed Job to allow the devil to afflict Job, some of which might have been by the hand of God.
As far as I can tell, the devil cannot do anything in the natural world without being given both power and authority through a human being.

I looked up the meaning of the word movedst. That's how I got to that conclusion. And other translations also reflect this.

kenallen · Apr 25, 2022

know1 said:

Was it the devil, God, someone, and/or something else? Or was it a combination?
And why would I ask such a ridiculous question, you might wonder mockingly?

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

We all assume, it was the devil only who attacked Job until you read....

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

In the above accounts, you have the devil telling God to put forth His hand against Job, and in chapter 2, verse 3, God said the devil moved His hand against Job.
So what do you think actually happened?
Who smote Job, his family, and all he had?

Aer you crazy God did not put forth His hand against Job He gave Satan the right to tempt Job. God know Jobs heart He know Job would stand up against Satan. He will not tempt you beond what you can handle without giving you a way out.

know1 · Apr 26, 2022

LactoseIntolerant said:

First, I didn't know job was a prophet.
Second, I do not agree with your paraphrased version of the above scripture.
Job was not some guy, he was a servant of God, as he put it.
And Abraham was not family, but was a servant like Job, because he was not a son of God.
The way I see the difference between Job and Abraham is, job was operating more under the law, where Abraham was operating more under grace, through faith and trust in God.
No one went to heaven before Jesus did. All who died before jesus's time, went to the belly of the Earth. Even as jesus's parable of Lazarus and the rich man. No one was a Son of God until after Jesus was raised from the dead.
The fact is, God lifted all the protection he had over Job, but also restricted the devil, preventing him from killing Job, and apparently his wife as well, whom the devil used to try and get Job to curse God.
And yes, I believe Satan is one of the sons of God, because he came with the other sons of God. Each time the sons came to present themselves, the devil showed up with them. And for that reason, I believe he was a Son of God as well.

know1 · Apr 26, 2022

pottersclay said:

Actually, I think I'm paying attention to a detail you have yet to see.
The fact is, there were many things I didn't see until after I discovered people doing witchcraft against my family and I. It was quite the eye opener. And it causes you to see some things in a different light.
It is written in John 14:13-14, "and whatsoever you shall ask in my name that will I do that the father may be glorified in the Sun."
"If you shall ask anything in my name I will do it"
Another word for ask, is to call for.
So it would read something like this, "whatsoever you shall call for in my name, that will I do that the father may be glorified in the Sun." and "if you shall call for anything in my name, I will do it"
Also, if you look at the prayers in the Bible, you would see a lot of commanding God to do things, rather than asking Him to do things.
No I'm not suggesting we command God to do things only and not ask, but there are certain things, situations where we would command something to be done in the name of Jesus and expect God to follow through with our command. Such as, casting out an evil spirit, or spirits. You don't ask God to do it for you, and you don't ask him if he would drive it out himself, as Paul did.
And Isaiah 45:11 it is written, "thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel and his maker, ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands, command ye me."
Some versions have it written like, "you dare to command me concerning the works of my hands?" This interpretation of the scripture I believe is incorrect.
Answer me this if you would, what did Joshua do to get the Sun to stay up and not go down? Did he ask God to do it for him, or did he command the Sun and Moon to remain still?
In Joshua 10:14 it is written"and there was no day like that before it or after it, That the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man".
Again it is written in Mark 11:23 saying, "for verily I say unto you, that whosoever shall say unto this mountain be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea, and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things what she said she'll come to pass, he shall have whatsoever he saith."
Who do you think would carry that out?
Again, you are commanding something to be done, and it is the hand of God that carries it out.

know1 · Apr 26, 2022

kenallen said:

It is written in Exodus 14:21, and Moses stretched out his hand over the sea and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong East wind all that night and made the sea dry land and the waters were divided.
Who caused the wind to blow and the water to heap up on either side, to cause Israel to cross on dry land, in the midst of the sea?
Not by Might, nor by power, but by my Spirit set the Lord of hosts.
If Moses could move the hand of God, and so can we who believe.

ewq1938 · Apr 26, 2022

kenallen said:

Uh, Job spends most of the book blaming God for his situation and at the end God rebukes Job for 3 chapters and then Job repents. Job did curse God so satan was correct on that part. Job is redeemed by repenting. That is the lesson from Job. Don't blame God if your life is terrible, and always repent of your sin.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 26, 2022

know1 said:

You seem to be misunderstanding what happened. Since Satan could do nothing without God's permission, he requested and received permission to attack Job. But all the attacks were from Satan.

kenallen · Apr 26, 2022

ewq1938 said:

Have you not read the entire book of Job? His "friends" spend 36 chapters going on and on about how Job must have sinned for all that had happened to him. The first verse of Job "and that man was perfect, and upright, and one that feared (meaning revered, or reverenced God) God and eschewed evil; and in the end God blessed him 7 times over.

Adstar · Apr 26, 2022

know1 said:

Was it the devil, God, someone, and/or something else? Or was it a combination?
And why would I ask such a ridiculous question, you might wonder mockingly?

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

We all assume, it was the devil only who attacked Job until you read....

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

In the above accounts, you have the devil telling God to put forth His hand against Job, and in chapter 2, verse 3, God said the devil moved His hand against Job.
So what do you think actually happened?
Who smote Job, his family, and all he had?

Is God under the command of satan? Just because Satan called upon God to do something did God obey the orders or Satan? NO.. God gave Satan permission to afflict Job to a limit.. Limit being, not to kill Job..

LactoseIntolerant · Apr 26, 2022

know1 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_(biblical_figure)
... In rabbinical literature, Job is called one of the prophets of the Gentiles.[2] In Islam, Job (Arabic: أيوب, romanized: Ayyūb) is also considered a prophet. ...

From another source.
"Seven prophets prophesied to the heathen, namely, Balaam and his father <Peor>, Job, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, Zophar the Naamathite, and Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite."

know1 said:

The paraphrasing is from speaking as someone who had authority confronting someone else laterally of the same authority over his hierarchial structure. So there was some guy joe, with whom I had acquaintance socially and the grapevine says adolf, Joe's boss, was going to persecute because adolf could out do over some inane reason. Wouldn't a conversation between adolf and I be something similar.
Like I said Job was a righteous man. He was not however a friend of God.

Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

God says to Abraham at age 70, "Road trip".
Sarah eavesdropping about being the mother at 60+ years, sniggers but was chided by God "No, you did snigger".
Sodom and Gomorrah was scheduled for a cleansing operation, Abraham intercedes on their behalf and is accomodated by God.
Abraham throws gorgeous Sarah under the bus for a king's mercy, and God asks the king "Do you wanna die?"

These are actions of a Friend going to the wall for another friend.

The Law came about from Moses, around at the time of balaam, before Abraham. The Law is from the Covenant between the first born the "Nation of Israel" and God. Job could not be under the Law as the Law did not exist at his time. Job could not expect to be protected as a citizen of a Covenant as no Covenant was offered. Not to mention another heathen prophet called balaam.

We are the children of Sarah, whose husband was in Covenant with God, Hagar is the handmaiden of Sarah whose husband is Abraham. Hagar is the allegory of the Law while Sarah is the Promise. The Promise and the Law are all from the Covenant between God and Abraham. So where was Job in all this?

Gal 4:21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

know1 said:

I agree.

know1 said:

My contention is God was under no obligation to protect Job. There was no contract signed, no oathing, no oil smearing. Permission is to the best of my understanding a calvinist construct to bypass the incoherence of their predestination.

know1 said:

Yes, the devil is a byproduct of free will, not a minion of God.

DavidTree · Apr 26, 2022

Foolish nonsense in comparing Abraham to Job and saying God was friends with one but not the other.

Elohim is 'friends' with all who love Him and fear Him. Now when i say 'friend' it does not mean 'buddy-buddy'.
From God's perspective it means God has established a relationship for His Glory that is based on His Love for that individual.
"And this man Job was blameless and upright, fearing God and shunning evil."
There is no Greater OT boast by the LORD over a man then this and the LORD said it TWICE.
"Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one on earth like him,
a man who is blameless and upright, who fears God and shuns evil.”

I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings.

When we compare Abraham and Job, we actually SEE that Job is superior in his heart towards God, just as satan sought to destroy:
Satan answered the LORD, “Does Job fear God for nothing? Have You not placed a hedge on every side around him and his household and all that he owns? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But stretch out Your hand and strike all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face.”

Job remained faithful in unparalleled suffering and never cursed the LORD right to the END.

And for all you who are not like Job and preach false-hood(pre-trib rapture) you will do WELL to SEE that Job is a Prophet for End Times Eschatology firmly established by the LORD.

ewq1938 · Apr 26, 2022

kenallen said:

I have that's why I know what happened in it.

Have you never read this:

Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes?

Job 6:5 Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
Job 6:6 Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
Job 6:7 The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
Job 6:8 Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
Job 6:10 Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
Job 6:11 What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
Job 6:12 Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
Job 6:13 Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
Job 6:14 To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
Job 6:15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
Job 6:16 Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
Job 6:17 What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
Job 6:18 The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
Job 6:19 The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
Job 6:20 They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
Job 6:21 For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
Job 6:22 Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
Job 6:23 Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

Little does Job know that he shall eventually be scolded and taught by God himself, and he would come to understand the errors of his tongue. This takes place near the end of the book for several chapters but is awhile yet in the future. Job continues:

Job 6:25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
Job 6:26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
Job 6:27 Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
Job 6:28 Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
Job 6:29 Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?

Pride is deceptive. It assures you that you are right, even when you are not. Job cannot yet see how his tongue is full of iniquity and untruth about God but he will be shown the truth.

Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.

He will do a lot of that.

Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
Job 7:15 So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.

More accusations against God.

Job 7:16 I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job 7:18 And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?

More accusations against God.

Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Here Job accuses God of doing terrible things to him without cause meaning Job thinks he doesn't deserve this and God is responsible.

PennEd · Apr 26, 2022

ewq1938 said:

I have that's why I know what happened in it.

Have you never read this:

Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes?

Job 6:5 Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
Job 6:6 Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
Job 6:7 The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
Job 6:8 Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
Job 6:10 Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
Job 6:11 What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
Job 6:12 Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
Job 6:13 Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
Job 6:14 To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
Job 6:15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
Job 6:16 Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
Job 6:17 What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
Job 6:18 The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
Job 6:19 The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
Job 6:20 They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
Job 6:21 For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
Job 6:22 Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
Job 6:23 Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

Little does Job know that he shall eventually be scolded and taught by God himself, and he would come to understand the errors of his tongue. This takes place near the end of the book for several chapters but is awhile yet in the future. Job continues:

Job 6:25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
Job 6:26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
Job 6:27 Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
Job 6:28 Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
Job 6:29 Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?

Pride is deceptive. It assures you that you are right, even when you are not. Job cannot yet see how his tongue is full of iniquity and untruth about God but he will be shown the truth.

Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.

He will do a lot of that.

Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
Job 7:15 So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.

More accusations against God.

Job 7:16 I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job 7:18 And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?

More accusations against God.

Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Here Job accuses God of doing terrible things to him without cause meaning Job thinks he doesn't deserve this and God is responsible.

None of this rises to the level of cursing God. Certainly not like what his wife wanted him to do, but he refused.

God set Job straight on his questioning and misapplication of what was happening to him, but he did NOT curse God.

Here is an example of cursing God -

Leviticus 24:
10 Now the son of an Israelite woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel; and this Israelite woman’s son and a man of Israel fought each other in the camp. 11 And the Israelite woman’s son blasphemed the name of the Lord and cursed; and so they brought him to Moses. (His mother’s name was Shelomith the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan.) 12 Then they put him [b]in custody, that [c]the mind of the Lord might be shown to them.

13 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 14 “Take outside the camp him who has cursed; then let all who heard him lay their hands on his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

15 “Then you shall speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Whoever curses his God shall [d]bear his sin. 16 And whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the Lord, he shall be put to death.

DavidTree · Apr 26, 2022

ewq1938 said:

Dear Brother, the scriptures you post show us something Beautiful of God's love for us - His patience with us thru our sufferings.
His love to allow us to cry out in our anguish and on the darkest nights of despair.
Who do we know who also cried out to God in deep anguish???
"My God My God why have you forsaken Me............."

"who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,"

Jeremiah said this of the LORD:
I am the man who has seen affliction by the rod of His wrath.
He has led me and made me walk
In darkness and not in light.
Surely He has turned His hand against me
Time and time again throughout the day.

He has aged my flesh and my skin,
And broken my bones.
He has besieged me
And surrounded me with bitterness and woe.
He has set me in dark places
Like the dead of long ago.

He has hedged me in so that I cannot get out;
He has made my chain heavy.
Even when I cry and shout,
He shuts out my prayer.
He has blocked my ways with hewn stone;
He has made my paths crooked.

He has been to me a bear lying in wait,
Like a lion in ambush.
He has turned aside my ways and torn me in pieces;
He has made me desolate.
He has bent His bow
And set me up as a target for the arrow.

He has caused the arrows of His quiver
To pierce my loins.
I have become the ridicule of all my people—
Their taunting song all the day.
He has filled me with bitterness,
He has made me drink wormwood.

He has also broken my teeth with gravel,
And covered me with ashes.
You have moved my soul far from peace;
I have forgotten prosperity.
And I said, “My strength and my hope
Have perished from the Lord.”

Remember my affliction and roaming,
The wormwood and the gall.

Who and/or what attacked Job and his family?

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