Religion vs. Sonship

Aaron56 · Apr 2, 2022

Religion is transactional: you do for God therefore He must do for you. By this, men hold God to account.

Sonship, knowing that you are a son of God, is relational: God is your Father, therefore you are led by His Spirit to do anything. In Christ, saints become the Word made flesh; living vessels of Hope by the power of the Holy Spirit and, once mature, are revealed as proof of the good, acceptable and perfect will of God. By this, men become the light of the world as the representation of the Father in the earth.

Artios1 · Apr 2, 2022

Aaron56 said:

Very well put....I frequently state that religion is what man thinks of God, Christianity is God wrought through His son Jesus Christ....it's a way of a Father with His family.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 3, 2022

Artios1 said:

And yet the Holy Spirit speaks of "pure religion". So there is something which God regards as pure religion -- Bible Christianity in action.

If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:26,27) Here James puts a connection between the Father and the fatherless.

The Greek in both the Received and Critical texts has the same words: θρησκεία καθαρὰ καὶ ἀμίαντος παρὰ τῷ θεῷ καὶ πατρὶ αὕτη ἐστίν ἐπισκέπτεσθαι ὀρφανοὺς καὶ χήρας ἐν τῇ θλίψει αὐτῶν ἄσπιλον ἑαυτὸν τηρεῖν ἀπὸ τοῦ κόσμου.

Therefore both Jesus and the Father expect pure religion to consist of (a) care and concern for those who are helpless and afflicted and (b) separation from the world and its sinful ways.

olivetree32 · Apr 3, 2022

Aaron56 said:

With all the respect in the world, you don’t have to be a mature believer in Christ to shine before all men. The moment He enters your heart, your a new creation in Christ. God loves using the weak and foolish of this world! Just talking, not arguing. Have a blessed one!

ResidentAlien · Apr 3, 2022

Aaron56 said:

What do you mean by this exactly? Could you elaborate?

JaumeJ · Apr 3, 2022

Perhaps because we become the Body of Yeshua in this age.

Snacks · Apr 3, 2022

An uplifting thread in the BDF. Thank you. 🙏

ResidentAlien · Apr 3, 2022

JaumeJ said:

Yes, the New Testament teaches we're the body of Christ but I don't recall ever reading where it says we're the "Word made flesh." That's a title reserved for Christ alone.

JaumeJ · Apr 3, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

We share His Word Who is the Word, and we become members of His Body. This in no manner takes away from His title. Think and meditate on this and I believe it will be made clear for you, by Him.

ResidentAlien · Apr 3, 2022

JaumeJ said:

I agree, He's the Word and lives in us through faith, but to call ourselves the "Word made flesh" borders on blasphemy if you ask me.

Think and meditate on this and I believe it will be made clear for you, by Him.

Aerials1978 · Apr 3, 2022

We are a new creation and God gives a new mind that desires to obey Him. Unfortunately we still struggle with sin. God shares His glory with no one. We are only glorified through Christ alone. We are not the word made flesh. This almost sounds like the “Little gods” doctrine. If I’m wrong, please explain.

“Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2”

ResidentAlien · Apr 3, 2022

Aerials1978 said:

We are a new creation and God gives a new mind that desires to obey Him. Unfortunately we still struggle with sin. God shares His glory with no one. We are only glorified through Christ alone. We are not the word made flesh. This almost sounds like the “Little gods” doctrine. If I’m wrong, please explain.

“Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2”

Very good explanation, thank you.

Runningman · Apr 3, 2022

Aerials1978 said:

I don't think Aaron meant it like that. If we see John 1 as a parallel to Genesis 1 then it appears that the "word becoming flesh" is an allusion to God's creative force. God uses words to manifest His will and create things, actively, and ongoing:

Hebrews 1:3 KJV
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

What most people often don't realize is that God never stops speaking. Throughout the Old Testament we see that God periodically decides to reveal prophecies to people using words. All of the prophecies did not accidentally come to fruition by sheer statistical likelihood due to being placed on a long enough timeline: "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

But rather at the exact time in God's plans, He speaks into reality what He wants to happen.

So when we refer to ourselves as "the Word become flesh" it is not to say that we are Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Son of God, incarnate, but rather that our spirit is reborn by the will of God (God spoke our new spirit into existence with His words):

John 1:12-13 KJV
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

That's just how I understood it.

Aaron56 · Apr 3, 2022

Aerials1978 said:

The actual reference is “God will not share His glory with another.”

But Jesus said, “And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.”

We are not “another”. We are His flesh and His bones.

Aaron56 · Apr 3, 2022

”Word” is like saying “the revealed divine intention of God”.

Aerials1978 · Apr 3, 2022

Runningman said:

I don't think Aaron meant it like that. If we see John 1 as a parallel to Genesis 1 then it appears that the "word becoming flesh" is an allusion to God's creative force. God uses words to manifest His will and create things, actively, and ongoing:

Hebrews 1:3 KJV
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

What most people often don't realize is that God never stops speaking. Throughout the Old Testament we see that God periodically decides to reveal prophecies to people using words. All of the prophecies did not accidentally come to fruition by sheer statistical likelihood due to being placed on a long enough timeline: "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

But rather at the exact time in God's plans, He speaks into reality what He wants to happen.

So when we refer to ourselves as "the Word become flesh" it is not to say that we are Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Son of God, incarnate, but rather that our spirit is reborn by the will of God (God spoke our new spirit into existence with His words):

John 1:12-13 KJV
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

That's just how I understood it.

It appears John’s letter to his audience was pretty straight forward. It establishes the divinity of Christ much like his gospel. The issue with this type of teaching is it puts the focus on the individual We are but like mist; here one moment and gone the next. It’s just not biblical

JaumeJ · Apr 3, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

Once we receive the Holy Spirit of our Maker, we are His priests in this age with Jesus Yeshua as our High Prist.
We are not the Origen of the Word, but we have certainly become members of His Body, His emissaries in this age.
Do we not all share theWord when we are given to do so? Did not our Savior give the Word to us for this reason also.
I do not believe I created all that is, but I do know that one of God's first teachings to me in Genesis is when He said, "C"ome let us make man in our image."
I pray for this molding of each of us every mornign and night. This, I believe, is the work He began in us in the beginning. Blessed be our Maker now and forever, amen.

randyk · Apr 3, 2022

Aaron56 said:

Yea, I kind of like how you put this. Religion seems more of a legal relationship, in which there is a covenant agreement. I do this for you, and you do this for me.

Of course, we know how that kind of agreement worked out for Israel under the Old Covenant. Many in Israel didn't fulfill their part of the agreement, and God responded by punishing the nation. Those, however, who upheld God's standards, albeit imperfectly, were blessed for doing so. Grace operated properly in their lives, sometimes sustaining the nation through periods of trial.

This is "religion" at work, which alone is not wrong. But without the willingness to submit completely to the Lord it just doesn't work. Curses will fall upon those who try to mix their obedience with disobedience.

When we completely submit to God it isn't ever going to be perfect in this lifetime. But it is all that God wants, a true submission to Him. He can work with that. And when we do turn our lives completely over to Christ, we become "born again," ie we put on a new nature created like Christ. We exhibit not just temporary good works, but works that reflect complete submission to Christ. The testimony of Christ goes out with our good works so that our good works testify to the world that they belong to Christ. And our works will follow us into eternity.

Rev 14.13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

This speaks of a complete commitment!

Aerials1978 · Apr 3, 2022

Aaron56 said:

That’s not what John chapter 17 alludes to. It’s a real theological look into the relationship the Father has with His Son and vise versa. The elect have been drawn by the Father and given to His Son. This in no way make us supernatural. If that’s not what you meant, than maybe I’m drawing the wrong conclusions. I just go by people words.

Aaron56 · Apr 3, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

Christ is not singular, Christ is corporate. We who are in Christ make up the body of Christ. He is our head and we are His body. This man, not Adam, fulfilled the decree to have a man “in the image and likeness” of God. And this was God’s intent from the beginning, spoken from the foundation of the world. Christ fulfilled this word and we are in Him.

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