One taken,one left. The rapture.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#61
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#61
I contend the ark floated at a level way below the hills being covered.
No doubt it bounced off of hills and was run aground several times before the wicked finally stopped clawing at the sides.

So it could be that "took them away" was actually noah drifting away from hordes of desperate wicked people screaming to noah inside the boat.

Could be.
Just a thought.

It is not a pivotal issue
Click to expand...
This is huge.
I never pictured this before....

"the ark floated at a level way below the hills being covered.
No doubt it bounced off of hills and was run aground several times before the wicked finally stopped clawing at the sides.
So it could be that "took them away" was actually Noah drifting away from hordes of desperate wicked people screaming to Noah inside the boat."
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#62
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#62
Dino246 said:
Agreed, it's not a pivotal issue, though I firmly believe that Jesus' "them" is all the ungodly, not the eight.


Does the parable of the soils tell us that 25% of those who hear the word of God will be saved? No, it doesn't. It's not arithmetic, it's the principle of distinction. Some will be taken, and some will be left. Jesus spoke in simple terms. Let's not infer concepts that were not clearly implied. The comparison is made to those taken in the flood, when there obviously was not a one-to-one ratio.
Click to expand...
Agreed, it's not a pivotal issue, though I firmly believe that Jesus' "them" is all the ungodly, not the eight.
Click to expand...
You are most likely correct
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#64
Jun 30, 2015
25,400
13,746
113
#64
Absolutely said:
You made my point.
two separate groups.

Apples <> Oranges

IOW the ratio alone tells us it is not a group of 50-50 righteous vs wicked.
impossible
Click to expand...
Huh? You were arguing that it is a ratio of 50-50. Now you're saying that it's not.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#65
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#65
this points to what Dino was saying as correct.
luke 17
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#66
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#66
Dino246 said:
Huh? You were arguing that it is a ratio of 50-50. Now you're saying that it's not.
Click to expand...
No,i am saying that because the ratio is 50-50 it would be inconsistent to ascribe one half of the world as wicked, the other as righteous
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#67
Jun 30, 2015
25,400
13,746
113
#67
Absolutely said:
No,i am saying that because the ratio is 50-50 it would be inconsistent to ascribe one half of the world as wicked, the other as righteous
Click to expand...
Okay, then in your view, to what does the 50-50 ratio refer?
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#69
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#69
Dino246 said:
Okay, then in your view, to what does the 50-50 ratio refer?
Click to expand...
It ....the entire group (IMO) is the righteous,
What seals it for me is "2 in a bed together"
Half the church taken...half left behind.

I am not jumping to that conclusion.
It actually fits and is 100% plausible.

I don't believe that all folks in a church are sold out to Jesus,
I am not saying they are not saved,
I am saying carnal and worldly believers are not going in the rapture,
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#71
Jun 30, 2015
25,400
13,746
113
#71
Absolutely said:
It ....the entire group (IMO) is the righteous,
What seals it for me is "2 in a bed together"
Half the church taken...half left behind.

I am not jumping to that conclusion.
It actually fits and is 100% plausible.

I don't believe that all folks in a church are sold out to Jesus,
I am not saying they are not saved,
I am saying carnal and worldly believers are not going in the rapture,
Click to expand...
Let's go back to the flood again; how does your theory fit in that story?
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#72
#72
Nehemiah6 said:
God is sovereign in these matters. So there is no need to make an issue out of "the same day". And for all we know there might be divine judgments on earth immediately after the Rapture.
Click to expand...
So same day can only be quoted to prove your belief but ignored f it does not.
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#73
#73
1 Thessalonians 4:16 states the gathering of the saints will begin with the trump of God sounding.
1 Corinthians 15:52 states this gathering will take place at the last trump.
If there is a last trump there must be a first.
Revelation 8:2 states seven angles who stood before God were given seven trumps.
These angels sounded the trumps one after the other. First to last.

How do you make these Scripture agree if the gathering at the last trump takes place before the seven angles sound their seven trumps?
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#74
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#74
Dino246 said:
I say you're ignoring the context of the flood, where the ungodly were taken. Noah got ready; his neighbours did not.
Click to expand...
Dino246 said:
Let's go back to the flood again; how does your theory fit in that story?
Click to expand...
The story is used by Jesus for illustration purposes.

Therefore questions arise.

Noah and the wicked depicted in the timeframe as before the flood.
It even lists what they were doing at that time (before the flood.)
luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The timeframe and setting never changed when the "one taken/left" is introduced.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#75
Jun 30, 2015
25,400
13,746
113
#75
Absolutely said:
The story is used by Jesus for illustration purposes.

Therefore questions arise.
...

The timeframe and setting never changed when the "one taken/left" is introduced.
Click to expand...
Agreed... so the "taken" must be consistent with the "took" from the flood story. Further, the ones whom the flood took cannot be the eight, because...

"They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark"

Notice it is until the day Noah entered the ark, not the day they entered the ark. ;)
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#76
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#76
Dino246 said:
Agreed... so the "taken" must be consistent with the "took" from the flood story. Further, the ones whom the flood took cannot be the eight, because...

"They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark"

Notice it is until the day Noah entered the ark, not the day they entered the ark. ;)
Click to expand...
That is what I am pointing out.
the setting is preflood
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#77
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#77
RichMan said:
1 Thessalonians 4:16 states the gathering of the saints will begin with the trump of God sounding.
1 Corinthians 15:52 states this gathering will take place at the last trump.
If there is a last trump there must be a first.
Revelation 8:2 states seven angles who stood before God were given seven trumps.
These angels sounded the trumps one after the other. First to last.

How do you make these Scripture agree if the gathering at the last trump takes place before the seven angles sound their seven trumps?
Click to expand...
Firstly the Jews knew what the "last trump" was. It is still blown every year at the feast of trumpets.
But the "seventh trump" most postrib rapture adherents refer to as "last trump" came before the end of the trib.In fact it is after the seventh trump that satan is cast down and makes war with the saints.

So to make any power points off of "trumpets" is shaky.
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#78
#78
Absolutely said:
Firstly the Jews knew what the "last trump" was. It is still blown every year at the feast of trumpets.
But the "seventh trump" most postrib rapture adherents refer to as "last trump" came before the end of the trib.In fact it is after the seventh trump that satan is cast down and makes war with the saints.

So to make any power points off of "trumpets" is shaky.
Click to expand...
This Scripture is not addressing Jews. It is addressing local church members.
Each trump mentioned is the trump of God, not man.
The seventh trump is sounded after the seals are opened, after the time of the two witnesses, and before the bowls of wrath is pour out.
Your answer is typical of those who refuse to address the trumps because they call into question your belief.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#80
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#80
Absolutely said:
Mat 24
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Luke 17
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left

Pretrib rapture.
Click to expand...
I don't think this particular part of the passage of Matthew 24 is about the rapture, rather this is about the day of the Lord. That's because the day of the Lord occurs immediately after the rapture which is after the great tribulation. The coming of the Son of Man as in the Days of Noah is a worldwide calamity like the great flood was. Just compare Matthew 24:36-51 and 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5. If you're requiring there to be a pre-trib rapture, which I know you are, then this post will make absolutely no sense I guess.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.