Nationalism and the Christian

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Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
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#1
does the bible support nationalism? kingdom of israel sure, but now?

are there any verses pointing to negative or positive? i cant find any in the new testament. positive or negative, maybe you friends can help me out?

this idea came to me with the ukraine situation now and me being a neighbor of russia and we are also on the verge of joining NATO (we already are a member just not officialy we do joint military exercises and go to their meetings etc) and i was thinking should i defend my country against an invader or not, biblically?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
6,698
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#2
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's. As those who believe, we have a Kingdom, and we are not of this world but of God's.
 
Feb 26, 2022
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#3
We are forbidden to say we love God we have never seen if we fail our brother we have seen. I reckon the same applies to country.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
6,698
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#4
We are forbidden to say we love God we have never seen if we fail our brother we have seen. I reckon the same applies to country.
"Forbidden" to say we love God? No, we are not.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#5
I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against enemies, both foreign and domestic, so help me God. I’ve always had peace in my heart regarding that oath. If God did not support nationalism, the Holy Spirit would have convicted me and other Christians who have taken that oath. Just my opinion.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,239
1,038
113
#7
"Forbidden" to say we love God? No, we are not.
pretty sure he's referring to 1John4:20.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Although, I think John is referring to Christians when he says "his brother" yet; I definitely think there is an element of "brotherhood" among your kinsman and countrymen, it's just not as strong.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
With respect to nationalism, Paul (I think) explains that God divided the world into nations "that they might seek after him", so even though there is not a lot of explanation behind it, we know that's part of God's plan of reconciliation. And we know from Romans that, the power of government comes from God. We are supposed to pray for our nation, and it's rulers, and we are supposed to submit to government to the extent that it's not asking something immoral of us. I think we owe fealty and fidelity and in return we should get, to some extent, faithful governance- if not faithful to God, at least faithful toward Godly principles, or... at least some principles. Of course our faith should always be in God- and never in the actual government itself.

Biblically, when John the Baptist was preaching the kingdom of heaven, some men that were already soldiers asked John what they should do:
Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?” He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”
Basically, "don't abuse your power". He didn't tell them they had to stop being soldiers or serving the government in order to be right with God.

But whether or not you ought to do it, that's between you and the Lord.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,806
29,185
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#9
Been wondering whether you edited that purposefully.
Your statement lacked clarity... and punctuation that could have helped.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
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#11
I see no reason that a Christian can’t also be a patriot. As long as that nation holds to truths of God, Is there any nation that holds to these truths? I’m hard pressed to say yes.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#15
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's. As those who believe, we have a Kingdom, and we are not of this world but of God's.
What I don't understand is if it's Caesar's then why doesn't Caesar come take it back? I don't see why the Christian needs to become an unpaid subject of a government in order to return the government's property to itself. If the government wants to run a government then that's their priority; if they want help then start paying up a salary to every citizen.

I'm speaking strictly political of course since we are talking about nationalism.
 
Feb 26, 2022
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#16
Thing is? JJ did not edit your post at all.
Hitch said:
We are forbidden to say we love God we have never seen if we fail our brother we have seen. I reckon the same applies to country.


"Forbidden" to say we love God? No, we are not.


If you say so...but in Reality land that is an edit.
 
Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#17
Since I wrote my 2019 book "How America Ends" I've wrestled for about two years with how I'm going to deal with some of the things that are coming next for this nation and the world.

If you don't know already, this is where things are going: increasing tensions between East and West, rise of an Eastern coalition of powers, continued decline of the West, open conflict between East and West, civil war within America (probably People versus federal government), Eastern coalition surprise nuclear strike on United States, chaos on world stage, rise of the Russian bear and her allies as world superpower, new era of military conquest by the East. Likely alliance between Eastern coalition and Islam.

As a hardcore truther, I've come to realize America does not live up to her ideal. I'm still a "patriot" in the sense that I love my fellow Americans and I love the American virtues that once made this nation great. But we stripped God and the Bible out of society, and we are in hard decline, nearly a freefall in fact, in case you haven't been paying attention. I hope you are getting ready for what is next.

Jesus Christ was not a pacifist. He used a whip to drive moneychangers out of the Temple. The Bible says there is a time for war, and a time for killing. However, soldiers and police are not to abuse their position or employ violence for greedy personal gain. There are still principles in play, even in war.

The Bible says that every soul is to be subject to the higher power. I do believe this is somewhat conditional however based on other Biblical principles, including the same passage where that submission to government is laid out. Government has a duty as well, a duty to be a "sword and a terror to evildoers." And if government is telling us to disobey God, then we disobey government. "We ought to obey God rather than men."

In this country - the United States of America - government is to be "of, by, and for the People." Arguably it hasn't been that way for a long time, but it's how it should be. If it is not, then this is not America, and we have been overtaken by a hostile power that needs to be expelled. As an American I will happily rise to that duty and fight, bleed, kill, or die to make it so. The time for that isn't here yet, but as a secessionist who thinks this nation needs to purge the federal government, I can see the time is coming. This is partly why I am moving to Tennessee. The fight is coming. But my point is that the higher power in America is the American People. Their rights are what this nation should be preserving and upholding. And it's my duty as a citizen to do so as well.

One thing I will not do, however, is fight another illegal foreign war for the globalist scum who have seized power here and who rule over the People illegally right now. I'm not leaving my homeland to go fight against Russia or China or whoever the globalists say is the enemy right now (though China and the Uniparty Establishment here in America are on the same team right now). And if the elites think they can FORCE me to shed blood at their command... well actually they can. If their acts reach a certain intolerable level I will happily go to war with THEM.

Best case scenario, however, I am hoping for a peaceful secession of a new alliance of red states. I doubt it will play out like this ultimately. The federal government does not want to give up power, territory, or slaves. So they would, of course, invade any seceding states and use force to "reunite" the "Sacred Union."

If you live in a different country besides the USA, should you fight for your country if compelled to do so? Well, I would say fighting for self defense is always just. That is Biblically supportable. If it's an illegal foreign war for the Western/New World Order cabal, I would say you should seriously consider getting exempted as a conscientious objector if your nation allows, or if your country's government is completely corrupt then it might be time to leave. Nothing wrong with fleeing persecution to save your life or the lives of your family. The wise man sees the danger afar off and takes steps to avoid it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,806
29,185
113
#18
Hitch said:
We are forbidden to say we love God we have never seen if we fail our brother we have seen. I reckon the same applies to country.


"Forbidden" to say we love God? No, we are not.

If you say so...but in Reality land that is an edit.
That is NOT an edit. An edit would have been if he had altered what he quoted from you, which he
did not. I mean what was in the actual quote box. Your lack of punctuation was not helpful at all.
 
Feb 26, 2022
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#19
That is NOT an edit. An edit would have been if he had altered what he quoted from you, which he
did not. I mean what was in the actual quote box. Your lack of punctuation was not helpful at all.
LOL Chopping a quote in half to make it say the opposite isnt and edit ??? You're off your nut.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
6,698
113
#20
we love God? No

Just for example.
Did Jesus Love God? Are we not the members of His Body.? This should suffice for your response. All who suffer with Jesus Yeshua are privileged so.
Arguing this is futile any further if you cannot understand this.