Plan of Salvation

Not going to argue with you about it. This is a thread on the Plan of Salvation. Please stay on topic. If you don't, then do not expect a response from me.

Acts 2 and Romans 10 covers God's plan of salvation very well. In fact the book of Romans and the "Romans Road" should suffice.

I start with this verse then go right into Romans road: 3:32, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9-10.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The Last Adam is Married to New Jerusalem. The Body of CHRIST and The Head are One through The Reborn Image.

You overcome sin for SALVATION.

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

If we are pillars of The Kingdom ...how is New Jerusalem not right now?

“You still haven't answered my Question ------as to how you yourself stay out of sin -“

I’ve become a disciple of Jesus Christ he doesn’t teach us to sin he teaches us to walk after him by his spirit that’s the only way to be free of anyone wants to come out from. I safe to sin we can’t live by a law meant for sinners we have to go to the truth that sets us free

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the only way to become free and it’s not an instant thing disciples are those who acknolwedge they are followers and learners of a teacher they have a faith taught them by their lord and they believe and trust in his ways

it’s hard for a lot of Christians to accept but our way is what Christ set before us not Moses but what Jesus Christ said is our path and way as Christians we are ever growing and learning and when we realize ourselves we have sinned

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we ourselves the person , realize we have not done what we knew was right it’s sin for that person and now what ?

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭

what I do is repent when I realize I was wrong. Sort of basic and I understand that Jesus will cleanse me from unrighteousness if I don’t try hiding the truth of my sin.

I’m not afraid to acknowledge my sins whenever they might appear to God because I understand the damage that does remember king David ?

“I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭32:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that time is now Repentance and remission of sins to all people. Repentance isn’t a one off the more we learn the more we will find to repent of like judging other people this should lead us to repent of that

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we’re looking at anyone else’s sin we should start looking at our own self and look for things we can do better and acknowledge when we’ve done wrong

of salvstion depended on my ability I’d have no hope but it’s firmly in the gospel where Gods daily mercy is made new each morning towards me so long as I stop pretending I didn’t sin or trying to hide it

“What about the mercy of God towards sinners?”

that is the mercy we take upon ourselves and show to others .

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel teaches us to be like Jesus he’s the source of Gods mercy, the gospel is what imparts mercy but also righteousness tonthe believers who actually take his word and start to apply it to themselves and others

it’s not just mercy it’s repentance and mercy

“You absolutely cannot separate the two!”

right God already did that I just believe it

“The law and the prophets were until John: (Old Testament )

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, ( New Testament ) and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is Israel’s covenant word and enjoined blood

“And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basins; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses word and animal blood the Old Covenant that was broken

the promised New Covenant word

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ( see psalm 2)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

according to Jesus the mediator of the new covenants blood

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s actually impossible to obey Moses and Jesus at the same time they spoke contrary words

“And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:2-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses told them they could remarry others and divorce for any reason . The two covenants are not the same they are for contrary purposes.

if we obey Moses law of marriage we’d be committing adultery according to Christ

“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus said thats adultery.

God seperated the covenants clearly from the writing of the law when he said Christ would come and speak his true word later , I didn’t seperate Christ and Moses words I just accept it

Weeell.. that isn't thinking spiritually. Thats presuming the lost sinner, now saved doesn't realise the grace given them. Which.. they would understand at being saved !

A saved person, would begin to think spiritually, and be initially wanting to know Jesus great love and plan for them.

Why would they, straight off the bat.. go on and rebel?

They have the choice to sin still of course.. but they have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them, guiding them.

We are getting a little off-topic, but I'll reply just this once.

Pilgrimshope said:

“You absolutely cannot separate the two!”

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You are misinformed.

“The law and the prophets were until John: (Old Testament ) since that time the kingdom of God is preached, ( New Testament ) and every man presseth into it.” Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

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You should have kept reading:

Luke‬ ‭16:16-17 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is forcefully urged into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

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The term used there and translated "new" is חָדָשׁ châdâsh, and can mean either new or "renewed." The covenant would be renewed, not 'newed.'

This is Israel’s covenant word and enjoined blood

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OK. Proves nothing, but ok.

It’s actually impossible to obey Moses and Jesus at the same time they spoke contrary words

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You do realize that Jesus was still under the so called "old covenant" until His death. Therefore to go against Moses was to commit a sin. You just unwittingly but effectively disqualified Him as the Messiah. Good thing you are not writing scripture, eh?

“And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:2-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses told them they could remarry others and divorce for any reason . The two covenants are not the same they are for contrary purposes.[/quote]
You need to study further before jumping to conclusions. Point 1:

Matthew 19:3-9 3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” [Some manuscripts add and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery; other manuscripts except for sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery]

As we can see here, this is one of the texts that is synoptic, and it gives a better idea of the conversation. "Whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality." And what did Moses (as instructed by God) say? Point 2:

Deuteronomy 24:1 “When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house,

That passage then goes on to talk about remarriage.

if we obey Moses law of marriage we’d be committing adultery according to Christ

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So no, you would not. They both said the same.

“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.” ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

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The term rendered uncleaness is עֶרְוָה ‛ervâh- nakedness, shame, unclean (-ness). Not just any reason, but immorality. And your scripture says:

Deuteronomy 24:2 and if she goes and becomes another man's wife,

"IF." Really big word right there. The KJV is full of errors like this. It depends on what the translator was taught as well as which of over 5000 manuscripts he is translating from. I often read from several translations to get a better idea.

Jesus said thats adultery.

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No, your flawed translation and even more flawed interpretation did. Sorry.

God seperated the covenants clearly from the writing of the law when he said Christ would come and speak his true word later , I didn’t seperate Christ and Moses words I just accept it

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No. You accepted a lie perpetrated by the church fathers and handed down as dogma and doctrine.

Now, before your inevitable reply, let me just say "OK. You win." I am not going to argue with you about this. Say your piece, then let's get back on topic; please. That, by the way goes for anyone else wanting to hijack the thread to air personal grievances (or create new ones).

And back to God's plan for our salvation, I just printed out all 178 verses with the word salvation in them from the KJV and have been studying it. Interesting!! When salvation is mentioned in Exodus and Deuteronomy, KJV translates it as salvation but the NIV translates it as deliverance. EXe 14:13 and Exe 15:.2.

There is only one verse saying that Christ spoke of salvation. John 4:22. The only gospel that talks about salvation is Luke. Luke doesn't tell of Jesus telling us to be saved, but quotes what men prophesied about Christ being our salvation.

Christ's preaching centered on giving up our fleshly will and living for God with repentance. We are to pray for that daily, ''We are to live, and pray for, God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.

That you cannot separate the first five books from the rest of the Bible is important. Without that, the foundation of the entire OT at least (just for a point of agreement) there is no salvation history and no Yeshua called Jesus. Yeshua means "salvation." No Torah and no OT, no Yeshua. Who needs Him telling us to behave (kinda what Torah did too). After all, we are just formed from random muck running around doing what muck always does. Dirty? You bet. But then we are muck, after all.

All the "Law" and the Prophets, as well as the Writings/Wisdom Literature point to Jesus. The prophecies there, most of which Jesus fulfilled were His bonifiedes; His credentials. Without those why would muck listen to Him? But because muck had the OT and the morality Torah instilled, and because muck is told we were formed by an almighty creator and we are special to Him, muck has value, and therefore values. From muck we were formed, and to muck we will return. But we will be raised anew, a renewed creation, incorruptible if we but follow the lead of our creator.

In the OT we learned that other gods demanded sacrifice. But the OT predicted and the NT clearly says our God sacrificed of Himself for us. Separate the two and you have muck on a stick, an empty tomb and a lot of excuses why that was. Sorry, that's not my Savior. Mine was God Himself with us, was raised on the third day to overcome sin and death and will one day raise this mass of muck that is me just as He was raised.

So look, if you think the OT is defunct and should therefore not be used in a PoS, that is fine. Say it that way, even give reasons and no problem. These are my reasons, and 'nuff said. We can all then agree or not (we do have "buttons" after all- so hit me!), but please let's not take the thread into an argument on that topic. Thanks.

Great post!!!

Hebrews of the 1st century and before though of salvation more in terms of physical salvation than spiritual. So this is one place where the NIV got it right. If you read those passages you will find many times they needed saving from some thing or some one or some circumstance. I always argue that spiritually we do need saving from:
* some thing- the second death
* some one- the enemy of our souls
* some circumstance- eternity without God

Jesus was teaching according to Torah.

Love you post, this site really needed it. 'There are so many posts by the people who believe Paul reported the law is dead, that grace is opposed to law and law is death and on and on. They ignore Paul's conclusions that usually start "God forbid" and say these poster's conclusions are all wrong.

However, I believe the new covenant started the minute Christ was conceived. I think this because he was alive and well when he explained how the new covenant worked in the sermon on the mount. Jesus said "you have been told." The first verses of that chapter 5 in Matt. tells us that Christ never changed anything they had been told, then Christ explained how the new covenant worked, with what they had been told put into their hearts instead of in stone, giving five examples of the difference.

Great info. Thanks for doing the work and telling us.

John 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Salvation is very simple and available to everyone from young to old, to mentally impaired to brilliant. It is simply a matter of wanting salvation and knowing you need to want to be pure and sin free. That is a want so strong it leads us, and all we need to know about that is Christ is the leader to follow and we can rely completely in him. When we find an oops, that sin got by me, Christ takes care of it with forgiveness. Christ looks at what we truly want to do in our hearts, not at what we do.

lol yeah that seems like a good conversation but yeah it’s pretty obvious to me that there is a new covenant and an old one but honestly I’m good with whatever you wish to believe

“Christ is the leader to follow and we can rely completely in him. When we find an oops, that sin got by me, Christ takes care of it with forgiveness.”

amen sister

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them,

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things,

from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:39

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

until the world was made aware and made guilty of sin without excise they could never have accepted the gospel that is a call to repentance from it

“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭9:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we aren’t aware of our sin ( which the law makes known ) it is impossible to turn to a savior who is offering remission of sins it’s why slot of folks reject Jesus they aren’t willing to acknowledge thier own sin they spend thier time peering at other people sort of the plank in the eye disease