More on Christians and demons.

This subject is not all my favourite. Still, an argument has been raised against my position. Rather than address every post, I'll respond this way.

The word "possess" creates a deal of angst with some Christians. Perhaps it is the portrayal of possession in horror movies such as the Exorcist. In reality, demons like to hide in the personality of the person, infiltrating and manipulating until the person is bound in a particular sin.

For example, pride. This is a huge problem for those who make spiritual progress. Some start to think it was something about them that impressed God to the point that He wanted to bless them especially. That suggestion may be planted by a demon. If the person accepts that lie, the demon will encroach further and further into his mind, with the intent of controlling his will. It is far better to reject the proud thought before it becomes entrenched. But if it is entrenched, then the individual has taken a demon onboard.

Often people are blissfully unaware of their condition. That's where the church should step in. The believer needs to be made aware of the problem and be willing to be set free.

Some say that Christians cannot have a demon. On the same basis, Christians should never get sick. Sickness is of the devil, God is our healer and the Holy Spirit gives life to our mortal bodies. Yet Christians do get ill. Eventually, we die. And that is in spite of the Holy Spirit giving life to our mortal bodies. No, given the right conditions, Christians will get sick and can be healed. Likewise, Christians can be bound by demons and yes, can be delivered.

I say -----I don't know where you get that from in any Scripture ---can you give a Scripture to back your thinking up ----
cause no demon can make you do any sin ---to act on a sin is our choice ---you can't blame a demon for what action you do -----all the demon can do is put the thought in your mind ----you have a choice to act on the though or not ------now when a demon possesses you then they can make you do what they want ---because they are in control of you -----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I say ------The Exorcist movie is based on a true events -------it happened to a boy actually ---now the movies do up play the scale of the Possession for entertainment ----but the possession is based on truth -----Read here below

https://www.novelsuspects.com/articles/roland-doe/
Roland Doe: The Chilling True Story that Inspired The Exorcist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say
But there has been a few possession movies that are based on real life happenings ------the Exorcism of Emily Rose ---is based on Anneliese Michel.Possession ----

The picture below is of Anneliese Michel and there is more pictures in the link I provided of this real person -------

https://allthatsinteresting.com/anneliese-michel-exorcism

Though many may not know it, the horrifying events of the 2005 film The Exorcism of Emily Rose were not entirely fictional but rather were based on the actual experiences of a German girl named Anneliese Michel

Over the next ten months, following the bishop’s approval of Anneliese’s exorcism, Alt and Renz conducted 67 exorcisms, lasting up to four hours, on the young woman




I say -------also the picture The Rite ---is also based on true happenings ------

The Rite
The movie is based on the actual experiences of Father Gary Thomas, a California priest who was assigned by his bishop to study exorcism at the Vatican. In "The Rite," he becomes Father Michael Kovak from Chicago, and the closing credits tell us he's now working in a Western suburb.

What are the signs of a possessed being?
Former exorcist Father Gabriele Nanni cites four accepted signs of possession, which include “speaking in unknown languages, showing a disproportionate physical strength beyond one’s natural capacity, the repulsion to sacred things such as a crucifix and prayers, and knowledge of events that have happened far away, in terms of times and places.” -

How does a demon present itself during an exorcism?

Each case is different. Exorcists have seen a wide variety of indicators that vary depending on the severity of the possession.

In mild cases, the victim often coughs uncontrollably, screams, swears, drools, tremors, yawns, winces, belches, hisses, grunts, growls, froths, fidgets and/or pushes away.

Sometimes possessed beings' actions escalate to hitting, throwing things such as a chair they are in, spitting and flailing, as well as having their eyes roll back into their heads.

In the most severe cases, objects have been vomited, people have seizure-like movements, a mysterious dark liquid has appeared in the area, the victim has spoken in unknown languages, marks appear on their skin, jaws dislocate, they contort into unnatural positions, muscles tense until they are unrecognizable, or they will take on snakelike mannerisms including sticking out their tongues and coiling up --

I say ----So for me I believe you have the wrong concept of what possession means ----and how God Limits Satan and his tribe to harass our thoughts to try an tempt us to sin - ----

Your idea of possession is incorrect. Yes, some people do show manifestations as you've stated. But it's for sure much more subtle than that most of the time. When I'm ministering to believers, I refuse the demons permission to manifest. Some Christians are not ignorant of Satan's tricks. My first encounter with demons was around 50 years ago. I did not know enough of the Bible to argue against what I experienced. I do not believe that it is safe to argue from silence. Lord Jesus said that believers will cast out demons. And I have cast out demons.

While sickness can be caused by the devil (or demons) it is generally due to other natural factors. The majority of people (and the majority of Christians) are healthy. And while Satan and demons can INFLUENCE Christians so that they sin, that definitely does call for an exorcism. Because a demon or demons can only possess those who do not have Christ within.

You do not know what it means to be possessed. Demons can and do inhabit some Christians. They can be and should be cast out.

When thinking about demon possession stops here, it becomes a deadly problem. Scripture is truth, and there is little of it about demon possession in scripture. However, the world has taken the subject on, added lies to it, and Christians aren't looking for the truth in something scripture tells them is a problem and will get worse as time goes on. It is quite recent as time is counted that the church has acted so unwisely against what they mistook for demon possession that innocent people were murdered in its name by the church. We are in a backlash from that.

To make matters worse, there is no where for Christians to go in the church for help when they come face to face with it. The world ties the problem to psychiatry, and that field is new to recognizing that there is such a thing as evil, even. Because demon possession resembles mental illness, it is even necessary for the church to determine the difference.

The problem was first addressed in psychiatry by Scott Peck, but neither psychiatry or the church is moving to help with it.

Agreed that some issues are mental illness. However, I've watched Christians helpless on the floor, laughing uncontrollably. I've watched a Christian rocking backwards and forwards like an autistic child, fall on the floor and start writhing like a snake. I quietly bound the demon and the writhing stopped immediately. The Toronto Blessing video shows Christians under the control of demons.

There is a spiritual gift of discernment of spirits for a reason. This is one problem that won't be solved by ignoring it.

First off ----it is not my idea ----I have given you real people who have experienced possession ---you have given no proof of what you think possession is all you have given is your own idea ------so just maybe you are the one who is incorrect in your perception of what possession is -----

Your seem to be calling these priest and people liars --and your the only one who is right ------just maybe it is you who are wrong ------

Mark 5 ---Scripture is below

Jesus heals a man with demons and the scripture describes this person ----and your down playing this truth ----

We see this man had super human strength and no one was able to subdue this man ----he could break chains smash shackles ------

-We see that he wondered day and night and howled and cut himself with sharp stones -----

We see that the demons recognized Jesus --Bowed to Him ----and were scared of Him and begged for Him not to torture them

We see Jesus was calling them to come out of INSIDE OF THE MAN -----

We see Jesus asking their name --and they quickly answer Him -----and again Beg Jesus not to send them to a distant place -------Jesus then GIVES PERMISSION for them to enter the pigs -------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say ----So this is proof of Possession and you say you are a man of God but refuse to believe God's word ---so your PRIDE here is showing big time -----and there is another Scripture describing a possession of a man with 2 demons that Jesus heals----see scripture below ------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark 5:1-20 NLT

Jesus Heals a Demon-Possessed Man
5 So they arrived at the other side of the lake, in the region of the Gerasenes.[a]

2 When Jesus climbed out of the boat, a man possessed by an evil[b] spirit came out from the tombs to meet him.
3 This man lived in the burial caves and could no longer be restrained, even with a chain.

4 Whenever he was put into chains and shackles—as he often was—he snapped the chains from his wrists and smashed the shackles. No one was strong enough to subdue him.

5 Day and night he wandered among the burial caves and in the hills, howling and cutting himself with sharp stones.

6 When Jesus was still some distance away, the man saw him, ran to meet him, and bowed low before him.

7 With a shriek, he screamed, “Why are you interfering with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In the name of God, I beg you, don’t torture me!”

8 For Jesus had already said to the spirit, “Come out of the man, you evil spirit.”

9 Then Jesus demanded, “What is your name?”
And he replied, “My name is Legion, because there are many of us inside this man.”

10 Then the evil spirits begged him again and again not to send them to some distant place.

11 There happened to be a large herd of pigs feeding on the hillside nearby.

12 “Send us into those pigs,” the spirits begged. “Let us enter them.”

13 So Jesus gave them permission. The evil spirits came out of the man and entered the pigs, and the entire herd of about 2,000 pigs plunged down the steep hillside into the lake and drowned in the water.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the PROOF is in the pudding here above -----But you say this

I say ---------So you make this claim now back it up with the TRUTH of Scripture ------and you can't so you just ignore the Truth and want to make up your own Doctrine of what possession is --and are preaching your own Doctrine on it -----which is False ------

You seem like you don't want to take responsibility for your own sins --so your blaming the demons ----by saying they harass you in your personality till you sin -----that is false -----just saying ----that is no where in Scripture

Mysticism - A lot of people have been unaware of the Spiritual. A mystic was becoming "Aware."

Dr. Carl Jung, Psychologist who got into the occult, he has been termed "A Mystic." There has been a mysticism to psychology. Not all mystics serve God. A Christian Mystic was experiencing God, in a relationship with God, with a circumcision of the heart. In Orthodox Christianity, Mysticism would be part and parcel towards Theosis. In Protestantism, given someone was to talk about "Christian Mysticism" a lot of people may react with "Freemason, Occult, Gnostic, yuck." That would be an example of Occult people working to steal away knowledge and understanding. They may have been working to close your eyes and ears. To be aware of God, to hear or understand God, someone may have been seeing or hearing other things as well. The Truth hurts. Knowledge brings sorrow. Ignorance is bliss?

Spirits or demons, they may have been in someone's subconscious. A lot of people were not aware. Spirits effect motivations.

The following is a short list of spirits as references in the Bible. What are said spirits doing? They are effecting motivations.

• Deaf and dumb spirit (Mark 9:17-29)
• Lying spirit (II Chronicles 18:20-22)
• Perverse spirit (Isaiah 19:14; Romans 1:17-32)
• Seducing spirit (I Timothy 4:1)
• More at: https://www.christcenteredmall.com/teachings/evil-spirits.htm

What are these Spirits doing? They are influencing. They are effecting motivations. Someone with a seducing spirit or spirit of prostitution may have been on tinder in the wrong way? Someone with a lying tongue may have been a habitual liar? Someone with one of these spirits, their character may have been molded a certain way. Their soul, who they are, may have been molded to something. Part of their identity, even if it was subconscious, may have been molded to something. Some Spirits are generational. They may have been passed down from Generation to Generation. There may have been generational curses on some families. (Deuteronomy 5:9) Some spirits someone may have picked up by being in sin, and being unrepentant. Someone's Soul or character may have been molded around something.

Yes i believe the will of a christian can be broken from oppression leading to possession of the mind and body but not the soul. I believe also if a christian turns to drug abuse the demon can take full blown possession of a christians mind and body but not the soul. possibly the spirit of the holy spirit still stays in body of that person but moves to a different part of the body the soul until the person has sobered up. or like wise when the christian who is sober sins the holy spirit has moved to a different part the person body because satan has took control of the persons mind but not there soul. i believe oppression can make a person become un sober in the mind.

What makes someone a Christian? Some people are seeking. They are seeking God working to grow in faith.

• 2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colos´sae: (1 Colossians 1:2)

Is there a difference between Saints and Faithful Brethren in Christ? In the OP, it is postulated that a Christian would not get sick, yet, people who claim to be Christians often get sick. Is there a difference between a Saint, and someone who is faithfully seeking God, and working to grow in faith, and become "One with God?"

A lot of Christians have had stumbling blocks that have kept them from growing "More in Faith." Faith started with belief. Even Satan believes in God. Faith is a knowledgeable dependence, a relationship with God. Given someone is seeking, there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong, is through envy or jealousy or something else, stumbling blocks being placed that keep people from having a relationship with God, and keep them from seeking more.

In someone's subconscious there may have been spirits. I mentioned Dr. Carl Jung. I would call him "Spiritually Relevant." Being Spiritually Relevant doesn't make someone Spiritually Right. There may have been something to what Dr. Carl Jung was advocating for. Someone getting into Dr. Carl Jung may have been lead astray.

Dr. Carl Jung talks about Shadow Integration. The Shadow may be the subconscious. Things that people were not aware of. Shadow Integration is related to Kundalini Yoga. Someone was unaware of what was in their subconscious. They worked to become aware, and then integrate. They were becoming a "More Possessed Person." Given someone had a strange fetish, that may have been an unclean spirit. Someone working to integrate their shadow, and integrate said fetish, that was an integration of an unclean spirit towards being a "More Possessed Person." I learned of such things studying exorcism, and reflecting on things experienced through God. Having experienced God, I could read a short synopsis of Dr. Carl Jung, and see what he was doing and why to a degree due to him being "Spiritual Relevant," and a mystic, even if he was outside of God.

In Christianity, a lot of people have been blind and deaf to God. Being blind and deaf, a lot of people around a Church, with stumbling blocks, may have had some "hangers on" in their subconscious, due to them being unrepentant sinners.

The word Christ--ian ----explains it I think ------Originally the Word was meant for people who have Received Jesus as their Lord and Saviour in their hearts ----that is having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ---having Christ in you -------

Here is the thing -----A person can seek but not knock ------God has to open your heart to want to Seek and then we are to knock and then the door is open to us ------God is the only one who knows the heart of a person and if it will open to seek ------we don't seek God ---God Seeks us and then opens the heart to receive His Word ----

JOHN 6:44
AMPC
No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me, and [then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.


There are 3 kinds of Faith ---and only one faith produces to actually grow and mature in our walk with Christ -----True-Faith comes by Hearing the Word of God according to scripture ------

Strong's Concordance on Faith
pistis: faith, faithfulness

("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief

The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

Faith is only (exclusively) given to the redeemed. It is not a virtue that can be worked up by human effort

the core-meaning of faith ("divine persuasion"). It is God's warranty that guarantees the fulfillment of the revelation He births within the receptive believer (cf. 1 Jn 5:4 with Heb 11:1).

_------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The word Christian has lost it's true meaning -----and is used by many who have not been drawn by God their hearts are still closed to God -----they just use the name -----

I have a testimony. I was a life long Christian who grew up in a Church espousing, more or less, what you are. I believed I was saved. I received a calling around the age of 30. (Luke 3:23) I was a pretty regular man prior to. Afterwards I became different. I started experiencing God. I was living God.

A circumcision of the heart is a major concept in the Bible.

• And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. (Deuteronomy 30:6)
• Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.” (Jeremiah 4:4)
• But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. (Romans 2:29)

Given a man has a circumcision of the heart, he may know because he has cause and effect supernatural sensations. Some people may have had a Heart of Stone. (Ezekiel 36:26) It may be like that hardness of heart goes away suddenly. One day they feel like a New Born Child, and stimuli they were experiencing prior to effects them like they were an innocent. It could be a feeling of warm watery sunlight in one's chest.

What was I doing different around the age of 30, other than receiving a calling? I had been through about five years of really bad depression. I was a US Army Veteran. I didn't care. Summer 2013, alone in my bedroom, I got down on my knees and offered my life to God, if it would bring him Glory. I went about my life not thinking about said prayer. A few months later, I received a calling, and starting hearing the voice of God.

Some Christians, they may be aware of the right things to say. Theologically, they may be close. The World has set a lot of them up for failure with God, and working to get by day to day, they may have been shepherded by false things, in a matrix of lies and false perceptions. There is a "Theology of Trials" that many may be missing. (James 1:2-4) A lot of the World has embraced Utilitarianism. In the lot of the New Testament, Apostle Paul relates the trials he goes through, and he was joyfully enduring them. One way we love God is by "Doing." God's plan is God's Kingdom. We work to build The Kingdom of God, in God's plan for us.

I haven't been on in awhile

what is your position? you appear to be considering Christians as being able to be possessed by demons? is that correct?

I have no angst regarding demons, so if you don't mind, would you please explain

thanks

you seem to like people providing you with scripture. hopefully, you do so because you source your opinions from the same

being as that might be so, is there a place wherein a person is identified as an exorcist? I know there is the spiritual gift of 'discernment' aka “discernment of spirits” or “distinguishing between spirits", indicating that whatever is going on, it is not the Holy Spirit since He is One and not many.

The Greek word for this gift is diskrisis. As spirits have the ability to influence human beings, it is helpful to know what is behind the words or actions.

what do you think of that gift?

Jesus was the exo
I say
What is an exorcist ---define the word ------

well I know there actually is no place

and so do you

if Jesus has returned to the Father, how is He all over the world exercising demons?

what does in Jesus Name mean then? why did Jesus have to return?

hint: something to do with the Holy Spirit


and are you going to answer my post 15 to you?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Do I What -?????????---you seem to be all over the place with your Question ----

ex·or·cist ------a person who expels or attempts to expel a supposed evil spirit from a person or place

Are you saying Jesus is not Biblical -----Jesus drove out demons when He walked this earth and you say it is not biblical ??????????

I don't believe a genuine beliver can be possessed by a demon.

I do however believe that a believer can give a demon a foothold that leads to a stronghold.

look, a blind person can see that is not what I wrote

are you going to answer my post 15? I will give the Reader's Digest version since that might hold your attention span

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE GIFT OF DISCERNMENT?

that is my question. the rest, is you obfuscating my post and discrediting a normal question based on scripture