Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

understand it in its context. it is like Solomon saying over and over 'under the sun'

within the universe God created, momentum and mass/energy and information cannot be destroyed. it only changes forms. it can be rendered powerless & have all its glory removed ((the literal meaning of 'destroy')) or it can be made powerful & glorified.
that does not mean God did not create the universe -- it means that in the universe He chose to create in order to testify of Himself, The Truth, it is a fundamental fact of the universe He created that nothing is annihilated in it; things only change form, and if you are omniscient and omnipotent, you can always restore them: nothing within the universe God created can utterly cease to exist.

God created the universe with such characteristics on purpose. why?
by Him all things consist. He upholds all things. our existence - whether lost or saved, both - is fundamentally made of His existence. we are souls because His breath is in us. does His breath cease to exist? does He annihilate His own breath?

what does His universe teach you? He created His universe in order to teach you. does His testimony, His universe, teach annihilationism? absolutely not!

How long are they in the lake of fire?

What becomes of them afterwards?

What denomination believes this?

Again, that is a gamble that you must be willing to take. I am not willing to take it. Good luck if that is what you are wanting to do.

All I am saying is that Revelation 20:10 gives a definition for what it means to be cast into the lake of fire.

That more than satan, the beast, and the false prophet, will be cast there is in the word of God; it is not adding to it to say that there will be more than just those three in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15 specifically tells us that all whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast there.

False. The only thing that lasts forever there is the smoke.

what does His universe teach you? He created His universe in order to teach you. does His testimony, His universe, teach annihilationism? absolutely not!

locally smoke will end when everything is burned up. Demons are fallen angels which are spirit, not physical thus nothing to burn.

This really is a important subject.

The state of the dead.....
Do the dead really die ... the dead are dead.
Or are the dead alive in another form, or the soul lives on without the body.

Has anyone looked at history? It really helps to understand the origins of these teachings. The first lie that was told to eve.... "You shall not die". Like understanding Christmas and its beginnings you can understand why Christianity and paganism are mixed together for that day.

Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The word soul in Ecclesiastes refers to physical death friend. In the NT soul often refers to the spiritual part of mankind. Some uses of soul in the OT may be misread as being the spiritual part. Remember revelation in scripture is progressive or develops. A good example is the New Covenant.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecclesiastes 2:24
There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.

Ecclesiastes 4:8
There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail.

Ecclesiastes 6:2
A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.

Ecclesiastes 6:3
If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

Ecclesiastes 7:28
Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.

Ezekiel 3:19
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 3:21
Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 4:14
Then said I, Ah Lord God! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.

Ezekiel 7:19
They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.

Ezekiel 13:18
And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

Ezekiel 13:19
And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Ezekiel 13:20
Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Ezekiel 14:14
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.

Ezekiel 14:20
Though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Ezekiel 18:27
Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Ezekiel 22:25
There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.

Ezekiel 22:27
Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.

Ezekiel 24:21
Speak unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellency of your strength, the desire of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword.

Ezekiel 33:5
He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

Ezekiel 33:9
Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.


Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Nahum goes on to say the unsaved are like dry stubble (vs.10).

As smoke is driven away, So drive them away; As wax melts before the fire,
So let the wicked perish at the presence of God. Psa.68:2

The lof isn't an eternal holding tank for the lost. It's the presence of our Lord Jesus on judgement day. Compare these,

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2Thes.2:8

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet.....These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev.19:20

Peter tells us when Christ appears again, the universe will be engulfed in fire. That's one big lake!

I understand what you're saying. For many years I believed the same thing. I think a big problem is that Christians are unwilling to look at the other side. All scripture must agree, but for a long time, I was unwilling to examine passages that seemingly contradicted what I had been taught. I try not to do that anymore.

Smoke is aerated dust.
Your body is dust.
If you are burned up and your smoke remains forever, then your body does - it has only changed forms, not ceased to exist.

You participant in argument the decay in the Garden of Eden Post - decay in the beginning and federal headship. It was argued that man was made perfect vs good. The argument was continued here in this OP. It was established that the persistence of the human soul was the basis of interpretation of the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life.
Also did you not intimate this in the post #510 as you contended that immortality it was not contingent on God from my reckoning?
Without the logical necessity of a hell, the doctrine then becomes an assumption of the Person of the Most High. That is impossible and forbidden outside of the Scriptures.

So no, it is not a strawman. It is the main point of contention wrt hell. All interpretations hell conform to either one or the other. They don`t mix.

Touché! That’s infallible.

Seems a bit far-reaching that you felt the need to turn the wicked into disembodied airborne particulates, weeping and gnashing their teeth somehow, rather than just letting the Bible stand on its own merit and say they were put to death via destruction.

that’s why I assume you’re joking. That’s clever

They are names of the Messiah not to God
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/isaiah/9-6.htm

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
...
Wonderful, Counseller] Since each of the other names is compounded of two words, these expressions are also to be taken together as forming a single designation—Wonder-Counseller. The construction is either construct followed by genitive—“a wonder of a Counseller” (cf. Genesis 16:12), or acc. governed by participle—“one who counsels wonderful things.” Cf. “wonderful in counsel” (of Jehovah) in ch. Isaiah 28:29. On counsel as the function of a king, see Micah 4:9.

The mighty God] (’êl Gibbôr) either “God-like Hero” or Hero-God. The second is to be preferred, because the title is applied to Jehovah in ch. Isaiah 10:21 (cf. Deuteronomy 10:17; Jeremiah 32:18). These two titles ascribe to the Messiah the two fundamental virtues of a ruler, wisdom and strength (cf. ch. Isaiah 11:2), both in superhuman measure. The predicate of divinity (like that of eternity in the next name) is not to be understood in the absolute metaphysical sense; it means that the divine energy works through him and is displayed in his rule (cf. Isaiah 11:2 ff.; Mi. Isaiah 5:4; Zechariah 12:8). In the fulfilment the words receive a larger sense.
...
The everlasting Father] lit. Father of Eternity. The translation “Father of booty” is grammatically unimpeachable (see ch. Isaiah 33:23; Genesis 49:27), but the ideas of fatherhood and booty form an unnatural association. “Father of Eternity” describes the king, not as “possessor of the attribute of eternity” but as one who continually acts as a father to his people.

Prince of Peace] Cf. ch. Isaiah 2:2-4, Isaiah 11:4 ff.; Micah 5:5; Zechariah 9:10.

The Messiah is Wise beyond this world, He is a Hero of Godlike Stature, He is the Father of Eternity - Firstborn of all Creation and Resurrection and hence Father of Eternity, and Prince of Peace - King of the Iron Scepter.


The Spirit of God as an unquenchable fire.
Luke 3:16John answered all of them: “I baptize you with water, but One more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 17His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Heb 12:28Therefore, since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us be filled with gratitude, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe. 29“For our God is a consuming fire.”

The jungle under the sun causes you to wail and gnash your teeth. The fire is from the sun as one wails for tammuz. The Unquenchable Fire will either make you refined gold or fill you with Fear.

where can I download that complete bible commentary set for free?

Isaiah 9:6
This will happen when the special child is born. God will give us a son who will be responsible for leading the people. His name will be “Wonderful Counselor, Powerful God, Father Who Lives Forever, Prince of Peace.”

The body of the resurrected is not like our body today.

1 Corinthians 15:54
Easy-to-Read Version
54 So this body that ruins will clothe itself with that which never ruins. And this body that dies will clothe itself with that which never dies. When this happens, the Scriptures will be made true:

“Death is swallowed in victory.”

The verse was written in a more ancient language. Not english. Your sources are translations.
The exegesis of the "Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges" is more objective and dependable than your understanding. Your critique is not credible.

I believe we had a similar argument with your trinity OP. My conclusions were that you lack any standard of truth. Rhetoric very much like slashing at water with you. There is no reason to continue as it will be a fruitless endeavour.

No I don't think so. One day about a year ago, I was reading the Bible and I realized that it never clearly states anyone is in eternal conscious torment aside from three people. People quote Revelation 20:10, but it can be proven that forever doesn't always mean forever. The debate for eternal torment always falls back to Revelation 20:10, but it literally says only three persons are tormented forever not all sinners. The Bible is packed full of dozens of verses that say the wicked are destroyed, perish, or are put to death.