In the day that you eat of it you shall die

Genesis 2:15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”

In the day Adam and Eve ate of the fruit they didn't dissolve back into the earth, but Adam lived 930 years and he died. As christians we understand God is no liar so how do we account for this scripture that Adam would die in the day he ate of the fruit?

The answer comes from the creation story. During the days of creation God said it was good and on the sixth day of creation God said it was very good! Meaning creation was exactly as He planned it and was satisfied. Another way of stating creation it was a time without sin when He spoke these words.

So, what represents seven days of creation without sin? Only one time and creation is represented by the Feast of Unleavened Bread. A Feast without sin for seven days.

The sixth day when Adam sinned and ate the fruit he covered himself with fig leaves, but was an unsuitable covering for sins. Lord provided animal skins for a covering that was suitable to God, and hence the beginning of a blood sacrifice.

This day would become known as Passover which happens during the feast of Unleavened Bread, same day and reason why Yeshua/Jesus was crucified on the sixth day of the week.

But to answer the question and meaning of Genesis 2:15-17, Adam lived 930 years and died on Passover day, so God fulfilled his word. This is why no months or days are added to the dates of death!!!!!! It was exactly 930 years from Passover to Passover

Bump

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Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
instant he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4). So; is there a reasonable explanation for this apparent
discrepancy?

The first thing to point out is that in order for his creator's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood
death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes
construe it in their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was
primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than spiritual.

As far as can be known from scripture, Man is the only specie that God
created in His own image, viz: a creature blessed with perpetual youth. The
animal kingdom was given nothing like it.

That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that it
wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.

Adam saw grasses spout. He saw them grow to maturity, bloom with
flowers, and produce seeds. He watched as they withered, became dry and
brittle, and then dissolve into nothing. So I think we can be reasonably
confident that Adam was up to speed on at least the natural aspects of death
and fully understood that if he went ahead and tasted the forbidden fruit
that his body would lose its perpetual youth and end up no more permanent
than grass.

In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality, i.e. he lost perpetual youth and began to
age; a condition easily remedied by the tree of life but alas, Adam was
denied access to it.

Adam was supposed to die on the very day he tasted the forbidden fruit and
he did; only in a natural way-- subtly and not readily observed rather than
instantly. The thing is: mortality is a lingering, walking death rather than
sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold
Swarzenegger's movie character The Terminator-- mortality feels neither
pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be
bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop-- ever! - until you are ready
for burial.

• Isa 40:6-8 . . A voice said: Shout! I asked: What should I shout?

"Shout that people are like the grass that dies away. Their beauty fades as
quickly as the beauty of flowers in a field. The grass withers, and the flowers
fade beneath the breath of The Lord. And so it is with people. The grass
withers, and the flowers fade, but the word of our God stands forever."
_

Did Adam begin to die when he sinned? The infinitive absolute verb pairing explained.


Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


When speaking to a human man, and saying in the day you sin you will suffer a punishment could only be understood as a literal day wherein he would receive that punishment. The word day means warm, which obviously is a reference to the daylight part of day so not even including night. The word can mean longer than a day in a figurative sense but the context of the passage shows a figurative use is not supported.

Adam sinned and not long after he died. It simply wasn't a physical death but the type of death any sinless person suffers when they sin for the first time. Sin is a moral/spiritual concept, and the death it brings to a person is spiritual.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


It is claimed by some that this actually means "dying thou shalt die" and conveys the meaning of "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning Adam began to physically age when he sinned and eventually would die but is this actually an accurate translation and interpretation? No. Allow me to explain:

Gen 2:17 But of the treeH4480 H6086 of the knowledgeH1847 of goodH2896 and evil,H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eatH398 ofH4480 it: forH3588 in the dayH3117 that thou eatestH398 thereofH4480 thou shalt surely die.H4191 H4191

Here we see the word "die" repeated twice, H4191 H4191.

One of the verbs will be written in a different verbal form than the other. That literally means one will have an extra hebrew letter/character despite being the same exact word. That spelling difference and which order the two verbs appear can alter the meaning of the verbs. One verb will be written in the infinitive absolute form. The other verb will be written in the conjugated/inflected form which has the extra letter/character. What the pair of verbs actually mean is based on which form appears first and which is second:

http://kukis.org/Languages/Hebrew4Dummies.pdf

This isn't relative because this is only when the verb is alone and not in a pair as it is in Gen 2:17.


This is when the infinitive absolute form appears first or before the conjugated/inflected form.

This is when the the conjugated/inflected verb form appears first or before infinitive absolute verb form.

So back to the verse and the pair of verbs:

Gen 2:17 But of the treeH4480 H6086 of the knowledgeH1847 of goodH2896 and evil,H7451 thou shalt notH3808 eatH398 ofH4480 it: forH3588 in the dayH3117 that thou eatestH398 thereofH4480 thou shalt surely die.H4191 H4191

Here we see the word "die" repeated twice, H4191 H4191 or using an english transliteration, "muth t'muth". "muth" is the infinitive absolute verb and "t'muth" is the conjugated/inflected verb.

So in Gen 2:17 is the first verb in the "infinitive absolute form" or is the first verb in the "conjugated/inflected form"?

In that verse the first verb is in the "infinitive absolute form" so it appears first: muth t'muth, so this meaning is the correct one:

I will now prove that the infinitive absolute verb does appear first:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius'_Hebrew_Grammar/113._The_Infinitive_Absolute

Confirmation it does indeed come first proving which meaning it conveys.


"dying thou shalt die" interpreted to mean "a continued action over a long period of time" and that Adam began to physically age when he sinned and eventually would die is an incorrect interpretation in Gen 2:17. Those that promote this understanding do not properly understand the "infinitive absolute verb pairing" because they are ignorant of the order of the verb forms involved and which meaning is conveyed by their order.

A translation hard to misunderstand would be either "a death thou shalt die" or how it's rendered in the KJV "thou shalt surely die" which shows how the infinitive absolute verb form intensifies or strengthens the meaning of the verb "die". "dying thou shalt die" does not convey a "continued action over a long period of time" though it is often understood in that errant way. Using the verb "dying" in that verse suggests the wrong meaning as if Adam just began the process of dying over time which did not start happening as soon as he sinned. The first verb is supposed to intensify or strengthen the action or the meaning of the second verb yet "dying thou shalt die" fails to convey that properly which leads to many false understandings of this verse. It is a very poor way to translate the Hebrew. "thou shalt surely die" properly conveys the meaning of the verb pairing which "intensifies or strengthens the action or the meaning of the verb" that follows the infinitive absolute verb.

Gesenius' Hebrew Grammer Lexicon:

http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/gesenius/view.cgi?n=113

Note, again, that there is only one meaning when the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is second; "to strengthen the verbal idea". No other meaning can be attached yet you will find all kinds of article and forums posts which do exactly that due to ignorance of the true meaning of the infinitive absolute/inflected verb pairing. Some will insist it can have both meanings but that is quite untrue!


So, Adam did NOT start to age and slowly die over a period of time when he sinned. The "infinitive absolute form" used in Gen 2:17 proves that theory to be incorrect. The death he experienced was completed at that very day he sinned just as God promised. Since he was still physically alive the only completed death he experienced that day can only be a spiritual/figurative death. He was not "dying" but "died". The Hebrew demands that meaning. He was born dying because he was created a mortal human being. Aging and physically dying was unrelated to his sin.



Simplified version:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

When the Hebrew uses the same verb twice in a row one of the words will be spelled slightly different. One will be the infinitive absolute verb and the other is called the conjugated/inflected verb.

They can mean two different things but not both at the same time:

1. "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process because the verb means death.

OR

2. "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" re-enforcing the fact that he would definitely/surely die the day he sinned.

It all depends on if the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is last, or vice versa.

In the manuscripts the the infinitive absolute verb is first and the conjugated/inflected verb is last so the meaning of the verb is "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" and NOT "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process.

In order for the verb to mean "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process it would have to have been the conjugated/inflected verb first and the infinitive absolute verb last but that is not how it appears in the manuscripts.



When it comes second as here: "t'muth muth" then it can only mean "a continued action over a long period of time" meaning death is a long process because the verb means death.

When the infinitive absolute verb comes first as it does here: "muth t'muth" it can only mean "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" and that is the order of the verb pairing in Gen 2:17.


I should explain what I mean by, "a future completed death spoken in an emphatic way" because I am aware the conjugated/inflected verb is in the imperfect which means an incompleted action. God spoke these words before Adam sinned which is why the death is not a completed action yet when God spoke those words but the use of the infinitive absolute verb pairing supports the fact that Adam would indeed die the day he sinned as opposed to an incomplete death ie: begin to die. God said he would die the day he sinned and he definitely did. God simply never explained what type of death it would be.

Adam did die the same day he ate of the fruit - it was a spiritual death. And when Rom. 3:23 says "the wages of sin is death," it's talking about spiritual death. Just as Paul also wrote in Eph. 2:1 "and you were dead in trespasses and sins..." it's talking about spiritual death, that is, separation from God. It's talking about physically living while spiritually dead. So when Adam and Eve "knew they were naked," that spiritual death had done something to their constitution, indicating that God was no longer covering them.

It is unfortunate that people confuse physical death with spiritual death. It makes for confusion when reading the Bible. Nevertheless, it's not an easy subject, because sometimes it's hard to tell which kind of death the Bible is talking about, or if about both kinds. But Rom. 5:17-18 makes it clear that Paul is speaking spiritually, since he equates "death" in v. 17 with "condemnation" in v. 18.

Paul in 1 Tim. 2:14 said "Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived." Observe Gen. 3 context, that Eve was convinced that the forbidden fruit would improve her life. But Adam knew it was a bad thing to eat of it, yet he ate anyway (and who knows why). This implies that Adam knew he wasn't going to die physically - I think this is a safe assumption. But the way that the serpent deceived Eve is by saying "you shall surely not die." The serpent changed the definition of the word "die" from spiritual (as God meant it) to physical. This is exactly the way Satan does things, by convoluting words, changing the usage in the midst of the conversation. It's a confusion strategy.

It was on that day that Adam/Eve became human beings, and as such, are appointed once to suffer physical death. Had they not sinned, they would have been eternal beings IMO.

God was simply saying that "the wages of sin is death." Just as Scripture teaches

God is spirit he can only communicate with what he is, without taking on some form in concretion.
The death Adam suffered was spiritual, not physical.
Throughout the old testament for God to communicate with man they had to have spirit upon them.
It took what Jesus Christ accomplished to make that spirit available within us

I would offer you this . . .

What is the context of the entire, whole, complete Bible? Three points:

1) The Purpose of Christ
2) The Work of Christ
3) The Effect of Christ

The Purpsoe of Christ is to Redeem us of the Law of Sin and Death.

The Work of Christ is to:
A) Circumcise the heart
B) Grant the ability to Turn and Repent
C) Send the Gift of the Holy Spirit
D) Pay the penalty for Sin on the cross

The Effect of Christ is to "Live Forever"

When Adam and Eve sinned, they fell victim to the Law of Sin and DEATH.

In Genesis 3:22-24, we see the Gospel at work, which is that Christ is the Tree of Life who Possesses the Fruit that represents Circumcision of the Heart, the Turning and Repenting, and Living Forever.

[Gen 3:22 NLT] "Then the LORD God said, "Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!"

If Adam didn't fall victim to the Law of Sin and DEATH, the result of eating from the Tree of Life wouldn't be to "Live forever."

Colossians 2:9-15 . . . it's the core of the Bible and puts the entire collection of writings into perspective.

So, Adam didn't die a physical death at 930 years old ????????????????

Welcome to CC chat Chi-town

Thanks for the welcome

I was not very clear on what I meant.
I was referring to Gen 2:17b for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I am going to reference a Hebrew linguist that I worked with, so it doesn’t mean it’s accurate, but he said the words the day would actually mean “that very time” (not sometime throughout the day) thou shalt surely die. Would mean “dyeing, thou shalt die”.
It was an absolute, at that time, he shall die. But we know he physically lived for many, many years.

Something died or God lied. And the one thing that was regained through Christ was spirit life.
It doesn’t mean it’s accurate, it is just my opinion of what died.

My opinion he died on the sixth day which I see as Passover but 930 years later on the same day

I recently read (can't recall from where) that Adam & Eve needed to continually eat from the Tree of Life so that they could keep living. It seems to make sense given that God made a point to say (when He banished them from the garden) that in their fallen state they would eat from that tree and thus "live forever" in their fallen condition.

If Adam & Eve hadn't sinned, there (probably) wouldn't have been a need for God to keep them from eating from the Tree of Life.

Also, that tree is a type and shadow of Christ Himself, who gives us His "bread of life" and "living water". Once we become His, Jesus keeps giving those things to us continuously.

This frame of belief staggers me. It is amazing how many people actually believe that this is a Biblical teaching. There is nothing within the front and back covers of all the Bibles that I own that would support such a notion. There is but only one reference to "living forever" that does not relate to Eternal Life in either Heaven or Hell. There is only one "object" that grants Eternal Life and it is Christ.

The Tree doesn't freeze a person in their current Spiritual Condition, rather, it relieves them of their existing condition, which is Spiritual Death; the Curse of the Law of Sin and Death. Jesus is that Three of Life, just as clearly indicated in the book of Revelation. The reason why the Lord disallowed Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Life is that this was a living allegory, stating that humanity would need to wait for the First Day of Christ as He, the Bread of Life, hung on a Tree upon Calvary Hill.

[Gal 3:13 NLT] 13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

From that tree, Christ granted Eternal Life to one of the thieves.

[Luk 23:43 NLT] "And Jesus replied, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise."

The Tree of Life is what the Bible is about. The Tree of Life represents 3 core elements:

1) The Purpose of Christ (To Redeem His Elect from the Curse)
2) The Work of Christ (To Spiritual Circumcise the Curse from the hearts of the Elect, grant Repentance, grant the Holy Spirit, pay the debt of sin through His sacrifice)
3) The Effect of Christ (To create a "New Man" - To cause Holy Regeneration - To Renew - To take that which is corrupted and convert it into the Incorruptible - To replace the Mind of the Devil with the Mind of Christ - To create a complete, Romans 12:2 Transformation

The Tree of Life is a snapshot of all three elements above.

[Gen 3:22-24 NLT] "Then the LORD God said, "Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!" 23 So the LORD God banished them from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made. 24 After sending them out, the LORD God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

I believe, within the "First Book of Adam and Eve," it clearly states what I have stated above, which is that humanity would need to wait thousands of years to eat from the Tree of Life, which is Christ.

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• Gen 3:22c . . what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the
tree of life and eat, and live forever!

The Hebrew word translated "forever" doesn't always indicate infinity.
Normally it just means perpetual as "in perpetuity" viz: indefinitely; which
Webster's defines as: having no exact limits.

According to Rev 22:2, the tree of life isn't exactly food for the table, rather,
it's an Rx, i.e. a naturopathic remedy for whatever ails you.

Adam's body became infected with mortality when he tasted the forbidden
fruit. The tree of life would've cured his condition and restored his body to
perfect health had God allowed him access.

The problem is, people tend to take advantage of medicine in order to
continue their bad habits. For example; treatments for STDs enable immoral
folk to continue their swinging life style with little fear of permanent
consequences. The same can be said for folk with high cholesterol numbers.
Statins make it possible for them to keep on eating foods that are bad for
them.

Had Adam been allowed free access to the tree of life, he and his wife
would've no doubt routinely included fruit from the forbidden tree in their
diets seeing as how its detrimental effects on their health could've been
easily cured by the tree of life.
_