The beginning of the New Testament church

Many Christians put the beginning of the New Testament church at Pentecost with the Acts.

Thing is .. Jesus assembling with His disciples did all the work of a NT church.

*Jesus is the Head
*they were all believers aside from Judas
*they did the Lords Supper
*commissioned to make disciples and spread the gospel
*assembled to learn from the Word

There is also more..

These are Mark's of a church before Pentecost.

Pentecost is a church empowered, not started.

Correct. It was the church growing very quickly in one day.

Christ built the church from Peter, the rock.

Matthew 16: …17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”…

Although there were heresies that sprang up, the main church for the first 300 years after Christ was called The Way, and they stayed closely to God's word and all scripture. They allowed differences in interpretation of such as monitoring the food they ate, but they all agreed on the core concepts of Christ.

This church is spoken of in our history as the church of the age of the apostles because any questions were taken either to the apostles or those trained by the apostles when they died off, no council of men answered their questions. I 323 the Roman emperor Constantine assembled a council of men to answer church questions, and that is the case from that time on.

Constantine so changed the church by using worldly ways to govern the church that it is studied as a different church. The church grew by leaps and bounds, but it lost its power. Before, to join the church meant a transformation as a person. Afterward, it was a matter of accepting doctrine.

According to Jesus, repentance and remission of sins would be preached in His name BEGINNING at Jerusalem. This occurred when Peter presented the gospel message in its entirety on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:38-40) The spiritual rebirth requires both repentance and remission of sin, as well as receiving the Holy Ghost. And this was not made available prior to that day. We know this to be true because Jesus said so:

44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

As mentioned in post #4, Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name. This occurred at Pentecost and is recorded in Acts 2:37-39. The scripture makes it clear that what was first presented by Peter was applicable to all that the Lord God shall call. To assume it does not pertain to everyone until Jesus returns is to deny what the scripture actually states. In addition, the spiritual rebirth is required in order to be part of the church body. The rebirth consists of being born of water and Spirit. (John 3:3-5) Notice Peter's instructions in verse 38 include both:

37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

That Folks is False Doctrine -----Jesus did not build His Church on Peter's rock -----if you look up the Hebrew word for Rock there are 2 meaning -----Peter's rock is a pebble or stone -------so that makes no sense for Jesus to build His Church on a pebble ------

Jesus is the Rock of the Church ----the Hebrew word here is a large Bolder--cliff ----see below -----this is why Folks it is soooo Important to Look up the Word in the Scripture to find the right meaning in the right language ----Hebrew for the Old Testament ---Greek for the New Testament and sometimes you need to look up the Root word in Aramaic or Latin to find the meaning ----

Hebrew meaning for Peter as a name ------



I say ------The Rock Jesus said He would build His Church on is His Rock --------

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
tsur: rock, cliff
edge, mighty God one, rock, sharp, stone, strength, strong
Or tsur {tsoor}; from tsuwr; properly, a cliff (or sharp rock, as compressed); generally, a rock or boulder; figuratively, a refuge; also an edge (as precipitous) -- edge, X (mighty) God (one), rock, X sharp, stone, X strength, X strong. See also Beyth Tsuwr

I say ---Well Jesus did nothing on His own while He walked on this earth -----He Did His Father's Will --and ---He spoke what His Father told Him to speak and He preformed what His Father told Him to Preform ---and that is Scriptural -----the Disciples got their Power by the Father's OK for them to have it -through Jesus -----

The New Testament Church is based on receiving the Holy Spirit to empower a person to Minister ----

Jesus did not start His Ministry until the Holy Spirit came upon Him ------and He told the Disciples to wait for the Holy Spirit at Pentecost -----the New Testament Church started after Jesus went to heaven and was able to send the Holy spirit to reside in People ------and included all people ---not just the Jews but the Gentiles also -----before Jesus died it was only the Jews who were God's Chosen ------ the person has to die to get the inheritance promised -----so the New Testament Church was established after the 4 Gospels ---and therefore it would be Acts ------

that is my view on that

Notice verse 16, "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus comments in verse and 17 and 18 pertain to Peter's revelation that Jesus was the Son of God. A study will show that Peter means stone, whereas the rock is Jesus.

I do, however, see from the Word that God chose to use Peter, an ordinary man with many faults, to present the entire gospel message that initiated the building of the church. The gospel message begins with the revelation that Jesus is the Son of God, and goes on to include requirements. (Acts 2) These keys of the kingdom (requirements) pertain to all of humanity as seen from the Word; Jews, (Acts 2:38-40) and Gentiles. (Acts 10:44-48) God also used Peter to assist in the conversion/rebirth experience of the Samaritans after Philip presented them with the entire gospel message. Peter and John came days afterward and laid hands on the Samaritans in order for them to receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-18) Afterward Paul also carried the same message as recorded in Acts 19:1-6.

amen the church began here

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where our doctrine begins with the lords word to his apostles.

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:18‬ ‭

“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip….. How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:1, 3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

amen to your post it’s when Jesus died and rose that all he said in the gospel became the eternal word of God

“For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why during Jesus life he told the Jews to continue keeping the law because until he died and rose his words weren’t the covenant until after he shed his blood

Correct:

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter G4074, and upon this rock G4073 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

G4074
Petros
pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

G4073
petra
pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

It is clear that Peter was a rock, smaller than the mass of rock that Christ is building his church upon. Peter was part of the larger mass of rock, not the full rock of the church itself.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock G4073 was Christ.


G4073
pe´t?a
petra
pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

This proves that the Rock the church was built upon was the larger G4073 rock that 1Co 10:4 says is Jesus. Peter is a smaller rock, G4074.

My pastor put it this way. The beginning of the Church is like a child being born. There's conception, there's birth, and there is the child taking their first breath.

Now if I could only remember the rest... The Cross was one of the first two events.

Conception -
Birth -
First Breath - Pentecost

Sorry, maybe it will come back to me.

Not always.

It used to be standard operating procedure when birthing a child to hold them upside down with one hand by their feet, and then slap their bottom to make them cry/breathe because after birth a child doesn't necessarily start breathing on its own.

I'm not talking about the birth 'moment'; rather, I am talking about the birth 'event'.

The New Testament Chuch began the day Christ was baptized - and 'annointed' as head of it. And then He went about - calling some out - adding them to it...

The already-existent Church was 'empowered' at Pentecost.

The key thing is whether it's a about an individual believer receiving the Holy Spirit in their spirit, thereby giving them eternal life...

Or the other role of the Holy Spirit in being 'in the midst' of an assembly of believers, already water baptized.

In Acts, it's many times the later example of already saved and water baptized believers being empowered..

The Holy Spirit indwells but also 'comes upon' and is 'in the midst'

Indwelling is eternal salvation, the other roles are empowering and blessing.

Matthew 18 has Jesus giving the process for resolving disputes in a church that must have already existed.

Matthew 16 has Jesus talking of building His church as Himself being the rock. The disciples being the first members.

The "rock" Jesus spoke of was Himself. HE IS THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE..... lots of people mistake this comment IMO. Especially the Catholics and those who believe Peter was the first Pope or some such.

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. Luke 24

My thoughts mirrored in your post..............thank you.

The rock is peters confession “ you are the Christ the son of the living God “ Peter of course means “ rock “ but the founding principle of Christianity is to recognize Jesus is the christ the son of God who all the prophets foretold of his coming and eternal Rule.

“He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar–jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it is This confession that is our foundation

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

…For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:1, 4-5‬ ‭

that’s what was being revealed the rock of salvstion God had promised had now come who would cause israels fall and the salvation of the nations would come forth

“Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭8:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there is a theme in scripture of God laying a precious stone in Jerusalem because they would reject him he became a stumbling stone and an offense to Israel. Taking the kingdom from them

“Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

What shall therefore the Lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner: This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:6-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. Save now, I beseech thee, O Lord: O Lord, I beseech thee, send now prosperity. Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord. God is the Lord, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar. O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭118:22-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it recurs again and again Christ is the rock be faith in him is our rock believing that he is the Christ the son of God who is the Lord !!!