The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

How in the word you say 2 tes 2 mean pre trib???

And yet lot, noah and the baby Jesus escaped. Zero trib or judgement.
The 2 escape verses also are omitted in your doctrine, as well.
Most all your points omit the pretrib verses and dynamics.

Your doctrine centers on omission and conjecture.

Meant to add these to my Post #1499 -


[used in 1Th5:3 of the "THEY" (certain ones, not ALL)]

HELPS Word-studies

3639 ólethros (from ollymi/"destroy") – properly, ruination with its full, destructive results (LS). 3639 /ólethros ("ruination") however does not imply "extinction" (annihilation). Rather it emphasizes the consequent loss that goes with the complete "undoing."

-- https://biblehub.com/greek/3639.htm



[and]

[used in Lk17:27,29... of the "ALL" (ALL of the unsaved / unbelievers at the time of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19)]

HELPS Word-studies

622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

[This is also the meaning of 622 /apóllymi dating back to Homer (900 bc.]

-- https://biblehub.com/greek/622.htm

According to the bible he comes and raptures the church pretrib.

As 2thes 2 says.

Very clear.

Unless you believe as the scriptures teach that the body of Christ will not be around to face such temptation. This is the time of Jacob's trouble. They must endure to the end.

""" I see you keep skipping all the hard stuff and keep going to the same ole same ole. If you don't answer the other question you will never get out of there."""

Look we know your doctrine.
We can present it even better than you.
Oh wait...once OUR VERSES are back on the table( the ones postribbers shove on the floor) the debate is over.

Your postrib workbook OMITS our verses!!!!
Omission is your center of argument.

Look man......you really don't know what you're talking about to be very honest. You are throwing a bunch of Scriptures against the wall and hoping they stick like spaghetti. This is not scholarship.

You would do well to take heed to TDW's posts. And follow up on them, do your homework and learn something.

The pretrib rapture is a doctrine and that is so clear cut I really don't understand why people fail to comprehend it. Well actually I do understand. Failure to grasp the whole counsel of God.

"""But NONE of that changes the facts that we aren't gathered unto the Lord until the Lords Day."""

Rev 14:14 has a gathering DURING THE TRIB.

All your talking points are so easily shot down.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished for that that is determined shall be done.

Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god for he shall magnify himself above all.


2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.



Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;


Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.


1Timothy 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.


Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.


Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


Am I correct in this is how you believe the plan of God unfolds?

But Lot had to obey specific Rules [do not look back] {like his wife did - had Lot looked back he would have ended up like his wife}!

Noah had to OBEY and build a Ark and board the Ark and [GO THROUGH] THE FLOOD TRAUMA!

Baby Jesus is God, He was going to escape no matter what!


Loving the examples you give, they prove we go through Tribulation better than anything else

Do You Notice none of these was removed from Earth?

You mean I am not supposed to fit together verses that fit together or I should do whole chapters at a time?

it is like the church fathers thinking they were in the gt.
In a sense you cant blame them because their revelation was hamstrung by those catastrophic events and persecution.

But at this late hour , the blatant omissions of the postribber is tied directly into invincible ignorance.

Blatant omission of verses is appalling and flat out dishonest.

Come on man.......their bodies are asleep in the earth that's all. Waiting to be clothed per 2Cor 5:4.

And still, You can't show me Verses where Jesus said, I come back after Tribulation, but it is in multiple phases and one includes before Tribulation!

So, you are not just OMITTING WHAT CHRIST SAID, but adding a complete new dialogue to what He said!

So you believe the day of the LORDS DAY BEGINS WITH THE ARRIVAL OF SATAN?

SERIOUSLY? WOULDN'T THAT BE MORE LIKE THE DAY OF SATAN? OR THE HOUR OF SATAN?

AND THAT IS WHEN YOU SEE ALL THE DEAD RISING?

CAN SATAN MAKE THE DEAD RISE?

OR DO CHRIST AND SATAN COME TOGETHER?

IF ALL THE ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE TAKEN AWAY WHO IS LEFT?


JUST KNOW THIS IS NOT ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT IS WRITTEN OR WHAT I BELIEVE BUT SINCE i CAN'T GET YOU TO JUST SIMPLY WRITE IT OUT (A REALLY REALLY BAD SIGN) I HAVE TO GO DOWN THIS PATH WITH YOU AS CONFUSING AS IT IS.

WHAT PART OF 'HE SHALL NEVER SEE DEATH' IS THROWING YOU OFF COURSE?

WE SEE lot removed.
It is a no brainer.
Yet you See him taken out WHEN?
IN your postribber mind, when is lot taken out???
Pre or post judgement???
Or....just omit the prejudgement deliverance and omit post judgement RETURN TO EARTH of noah.

Jesus himself was taken away prejudgment.

You kid yourself.
Nobody else.
Your points are beyond ridiculous.

"""Lot had to obey specific Rules"""
Lot rebelled against leaving!!!!
Gen 19
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters;

See the foolishness necessary to refute the bible????

PLEASE, OH PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THE SCRIPTURES TEACH THAT THOSE GRAFTED INTO AND BECOME THE SEED OF ABRAHAM FELLOW HEIRS AND PARTAKERS OF THE PROMISES OF GOD AKA JACOB, WON'T BE AROUND.

Your entire doctrine is one of omission
Too funny

Lot removed Himself by being instructed to walk away on his own power!

You twist Verses to suit yourself!