Works

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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I believe what Paul oppose is Jews think OT law still effective
We know Salvation need forgiveness. God way to forgive on the OT is through animal sacrifice. Than Jesus Himself make a New law, no need animal sacrifice He sacrifice Himself on the cross.

Now salvation not by OT law but NT law
John 3
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

With new law only need to believe His teaching, no animal sacrifice anymore

OT law not save you is that mean lawless, like murder, rob the bank save you?
Lawless not save you either.

New Jesus law save you

Grace through faith/ john 3:16
This is how I see it, except you say what Paul was telling us was no more was OT law, and I don't think you mean that The spirit of the law that is alive and well was told of in the OT, as well as the NT.

In the OT all was written in stone--the spirit of the law in literal terms and Christ repeated the OT, but said it was in the heart, now. In Jeremiah it told this was happening. The law is now not in such as cutting flesh but in such as what happens in our heart and minds. We now have the law, Paul called it the spirit of the law. This is eternal, but such as cutting flesh is cancelled.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Yes, believers shall have their works judged, but that has nothing to do with the law.
It is my understanding of scripture that the law teaches us how to work for the Lord, it teaches what work is pleasing to the Lord. You say that works have nothing to do with the law.

Would you explain this to us, with an explanation of why you think I am wrong to relate works and law?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
Yes, believers shall have their works judged, but that has nothing to do with the law.
It is my understanding of scripture that the law teaches us how to work for the Lord, it teaches what work is pleasing to the Lord. You say that works have nothing to do with the law.

Would you explain this to us, with an explanation of why you think I am wrong to relate works and law?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,414
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It is my understanding of scripture that the law teaches us how to work for the Lord, it teaches what work is pleasing to the Lord. You say that works have nothing to do with the law.

Would you explain this to us, with an explanation of why you think I am wrong to relate works and law?
Does the law teach you to support your local Christian church? No.

Does the law teach you to support other worthy causes in your community and elsewhere? No.

Does the law teach you to build relationships with non-Christians in order to bring them to Jesus? No.

I could go on, but I won't. The law was a temporary measure to reflect heavenly worship, to pave the way for Jesus, to restrain sin, and to demonstrate to humanity that they need a Saviour. Jesus fulfilled the law.

Now, those who have the law written on their hearts don't run around checking the old testament to see how they should act; the Holy Spirit works within them, guiding them by conscience to do what is right, and avoid what is wrong.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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Sometimes I believe Protestants just twist the meaning to fit the Protestant view. Even Martin Luther wanted to get rid of the Book of James because of that verse (also a few other books in the Bible which promote works). I think works can be both the result of faith, as well as apart from faith.
But without faith it is impossible to please God. (Hebrews 11:6) So you can do good works without faith, but you will not be pleasing to God. Our righteous deeds are filthy rags until sanctified by Jesus.
 
May 22, 2020
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Sometimes I believe Protestants just twist the meaning to fit the Protestant view. Even Martin Luther wanted to get rid of the Book of James because of that verse (also a few other books in the Bible which promote works). I think works can be both the result of faith, as well as apart from faith.
Just remember scripture....faith without works is dead.

Some of the baptist...maybe all.... believe baptism is necessary....never mind Acts 2;38...Repent and be baptized....
So nothing new...it is part of the new age religion teachings. Mind you....... not by scripture.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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Just remember scripture....faith without works is dead.

Some of the baptist...maybe all.... believe baptism is necessary....never mind Acts 2;38...Repent and be baptized....
So nothing new...it is part of the new age religion teachings. Mind you....... not by scripture.
Baptists do not believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith. Baptism is part of following the example and teachings of Jesus after one believes and is saved.

The church was called not only to make converts, they were called to make disciples. That is, not just to convert people, but to also teach them to do what Jesus commanded us to do. The fact that many christians seem to under-emphasize or de-emphasize the latter is why the modern church is in the state it is in today.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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The church was called not only to make converts, they were called to make disciples. That is, not just to convert people, but to also teach them to do what Jesus commanded us to do. The fact that many christians seem to under-emphasize or de-emphasize the latter is why the modern church is in the state it is in today.
And Christ told us if we love him we will obey him!

Christ came not only to save us for life after we die to this life but to live this life as a new person. Christ did does not live within us to be frightened, careful people afraid of working for him for fear that work is of our own self and not Christ working in us. Christ wants us bold, fearless, vital doing people.

The kingdom of heaven is near, don't be afraid but enbrace it. Christ does not give us fear and trembling or make us stumble. Threw Christ we can run, we can serge ahead.
 
May 22, 2020
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Baptists do not believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith. Baptism is part of following the example and teachings of Jesus after one believes and is saved.

The church was called not only to make converts, they were called to make disciples. That is, not just to convert people, but to also teach them to do what Jesus commanded us to do. The fact that many christians seem to under-emphasize or de-emphasize the latter is why the modern church is in the state it is in today.

Miss stated...sorry...post 269

...they do not believe baptism is necessary for sin cleansing.....
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
Just remember scripture....faith without works is dead.

Some of the baptist...maybe all.... believe baptism is necessary....never mind Acts 2;38...Repent and be baptized....
So nothing new...it is part of the new age religion teachings. Mind you....... not by scripture.
2 Peter 1
Easy-to-Read Version
1 Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because now you know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Everything We Need
3 Jesus has the power of God. And his power has given us everything we need to live a life devoted to God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus chose us by his glory and goodness, 4 through which he also gave us the very great and rich gifts that he promised us. With these gifts you can share in being like God. And so you will escape the ruin that comes to people in the world because of the evil things they want.

5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.

10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.

12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.

We Saw Christ’s Glory
16 We told you about the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. We told you about his coming. The things we told you were not just clever stories that people invented. No, we saw the greatness of Jesus with our own eyes. 17 Jesus heard the voice of the great and glorious God. That was when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice said, “This is my Son, the one I love. I am very pleased with him.” 18 And we heard that voice. It came from heaven while we were with Jesus on the holy mountain.[a]

19 This makes us more sure about what the prophets said. And it is good for you to follow closely what they said, which is like a light shining in a dark place. You have that light until the day begins and the morning star brings new light to your minds. 20 Most important of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in the Scriptures comes from the prophet’s own understanding. 21 No prophecy ever came from what some person wanted to say. But people were led by the Holy Spirit and spoke words from God.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,188
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Brighton, MI
Just remember scripture....faith without works is dead.

Some of the baptist...maybe all.... believe baptism is necessary....never mind Acts 2;38...Repent and be baptized....
So nothing new...it is part of the new age religion teachings. Mind you....... not by scripture.
Ephesians 2:8-10
Easy-to-Read Version
8 I mean that you have been saved by grace because you believed. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God. 9 You are not saved by the things you have done, so there is nothing to boast about. 10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us new people so that we would spend our lives doing the good things he had already planned for us to do.
 
May 22, 2020
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Ephesians 2:8-10
Easy-to-Read Version
8 I mean that you have been saved by grace because you believed. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God. 9 You are not saved by the things you have done, so there is nothing to boast about. 10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us new people so that we would spend our lives doing the good things he had already planned for us to do.

Why do you ad boasting. Keep it in context.
Only new age religion believers knock works. Scriptures don't support ...no works.
Wrong again...if you are here on earth you are not saved...you are born again.
Saved?...not until Christ has spoken that you are saved upon judgement.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,188
1,576
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Brighton, MI
Why do you ad boasting. Keep it in context.
Only new age religion believers knock works. Scriptures don't support ...no works.
Wrong again...if you are here on earth you are not saved...you are born again.
Saved?...not until Christ has spoken that you are saved upon judgement.
Did you really read those verses?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,188
1,576
113
68
Brighton, MI
Why do you ad boasting. Keep it in context.
Only new age religion believers knock works. Scriptures don't support ...no works.
Wrong again...if you are here on earth you are not saved...you are born again.
Saved?...not until Christ has spoken that you are saved upon judgement.
Good Works show us that we are born again.

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
May 22, 2020
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Good Works show us that we are born again.

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Yes....NOT OF WORKS ALONE !!!! Get it?
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
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Miss stated...sorry...post 269

...they do not believe baptism is necessary for sin cleansing.....
Sins are cleansed through faith alone in salvation. Sins are cleansed through confession of sin after salvation. Every Baptist i've ever met believes this way, and I've been a baptist for going on 34 years. There may be fringe baptists that believe otherwise, but it would be a very. very, very small minority, if any at all.