Where does the Bible say Satan or demons put thoughts in your mind?

Rhomphaeam · Jan 3, 2022

Can your experience be the measure of whether unclean spirits do project thoughts into peoples minds? I am assuming that you are not saying that representatively - anymore than I can say as a former occult theosopher that demons are silent!

Books written over 100 years ago tend to have an exemplary grammar. I have a copy of Pilgrims Progress that was published in the 1850's and the grammar is more developed than many of the professionals I know can write - who have graduate qualifications in any number of Humanities' subjects. It was written for children. Imagine that - for a generation that believes itself to be the most educated and advanced generation ever!

You won't find a better book on the subject of demonic warfare against believers than Jesse Penn Lewis - War on the Saints. But then she sets down a clear basis for understanding the activity of Satan in his person and by his legions - corresponding to the neurophysiological man. I think that it is that latter meaning that gives rise to your precept about the seeming reduction of unclean spirits and the minds of men and women. Today we have become wholly given over to vile inclinations and truly appalling ambitions - both in the church and in the world. Why need a demon when a man will do? Yet the worst is to come - we have seen nothing in our life time that prepares us for what is to come. The character of what that will look like was explained by believers such as Jesse Penn Lewis in a rational and well documented manner over 100 years ago grounded in first hand witness of revivals both in the UK and in India in the case of Penn Lewis. It may be worth trying to read her book again.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 3, 2022

TheLearner said:

oh ok

Pilgrimshope · Jan 3, 2022

Deuteronomy said:

“Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

….And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:1, 4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

….Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:1, 3, 5-6, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s what temptation is the devil offering man ideas contrary to Gods word trying to lead us into sin . it’s been the plight of man since Eden

Rhomphaeam · Jan 3, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

That precept may stand for all men who come from Adam - albeit we often do not have the detail as to what is offered by the Devil when he is seeking helpers to overthrow God - but Adam wasn't that man. He didn't believe the Devil because if he did - then he was deceived. And of course we know expressly that Adam was not deceived. I sometimes think that it is that fact that we should more focus on than trying to understand all flesh. Adam was both fully formed - intelligent enough to know how to name the woman after his own flesh and bone and all living creatures according to their own kind and then the woman - when he named her Eve after the promise of God that her seed would strike the serpents head - as the serpent would bite at His (Christ the promised seed) heel. Thats just me of course.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 3, 2022

Rhomphaeam said:

it’s just true of any man or woman in this world Satan is present t and always seeking to lead people astray it’s been true from Adam d is still true today

anyone who hears what God said and then hears the opposite and follows that second idea is deceived satans words are deception that’s who he is the deceiver and father of lies

man is unique among creation because of words we have rational thoughts , we hear and speak words like the creator we’re the only part of creation that does that animals make sounds and have life in them but man is different the word is how we operate the knowledge and thoughts ideas are what drives us on the world

all we have to do is stick to what God says is true then when Satan starts whispering his ideas we will understand and know better having heard Gods word

satans weapon is lies about things God said it’s his only way to corrupt man he doesn’t become a dragon and burn us literally he doesn’t appear as an axe murderer d physically kill he can’t because we were given dominion on earth

his only ploy is to corrupt us in mind and heart of he does we will follow him rather than God and the truth

we speak a lot of spirit but do we realize how connected it is to the word we accept and believe ?

Gods doctrine brings the spirit of God false doctrine seeks to instill a false spirit it’s all based on what man believes

do I believe the fruit will surely cause my death ? Or do I believe what Satan said it’s actually good for me and God doesn’t want me to have it ?

eternally opposite will be Gods word and what Satan spins from it that’s our war and so salvstion remains to hear Gods word in Christ d believe it not letting Satan strip away the truth

Rhomphaeam · Jan 3, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

The red script could be true were it taken literally and not figuratively of Adam himself. The black text if taken literally yet may be a figure of Adam - is a lie.

And that is the reality of words. Truth or lies are not predicated on experience - they must be established on certain fact. Adam was not deceived 1 Timothy 2:14 - and perhaps more to the point he told God why he disobeyed - because he listened to his wife. And even that doesn't speak of being deceived - but it does speak of motive. Its not important - but if we insist on saying something that is wholly contrary to the plain Scripture then we are likely to go astray when we are trying to share about deception and how Satan works. Adam was not deceived. That is the plain fact of Scripture. It may be of little worth to press the point here but when men wag there fingers at their wives or sisters in the churches they may miss that he who loves his wife - loves himself (Ephesians 5:28). The woman was taken from the man and that is the authoritative order of accountability in all spiritual realities before God that effect men. Sin is reckoned through Adam - even though Eve first transgressed. Satan put nothing into Adam's mind that made a shred of difference to Adam. To say otherwise is to have to believe that Adam was not capable of resisting the Devil. I am not being contentious with you - so I hope that you don't interpret my post in a poor spirit.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 3, 2022

Rhomphaeam said:

The red script could be true were it taken literally and not figuratively of Adam himself. The black text if taken literally yet may be a figure of Adam - is a lie.

And that is the reality of words. Truth or lies are not predicated on experience - they must be established on certain fact. Adam was not deceived 1 Timothy 2:14 - and perhaps more to the point he told God why he disobeyed - because he listened to his wife. And even that doesn't speak of being deceived - but it does speak of motive. Its not important - but if we insist on saying something that is wholly contrary to the plain Scripture then we are likely to go astray when we are trying to share about deception and how Satan works. Adam was not deceived. That is the plain fact of Scripture. It may be of little worth to press the point here but when men wag there fingers at their wives or sisters in the churches they may miss that he who loves his wife - loves himself (Ephesians 5:28). The woman was taken from the man and that is the authoritative order of accountability in all spiritual realities before God that effect men. Sin is reckoned through Adam - even though Eve first transgressed. Satan put nothing into Adam's mind that made a shred of difference to Adam. To say otherwise is to have to believe that Adam was not capable of resisting the Devil. I am not being contentious with you - so I hope that you don't interpret my post in a poor spirit.

I don’t even really understand what your saying honestly sounds like a philosophy paper of a theory about the origin of mankind . Your probably too intellectually gifted for me to be able to follow the argument

Rhomphaeam · Jan 3, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

I assume that you can accept that Adam was not deceived?

I must also presume that you can also accept that Adam told God why he disobeyed Him?

So it follows that Adam was not deceived because that is what we are told in Scripture and that he himself ate the fruit because he listened to his wife. That is also what we are told in Scripture.

We are also told that sin is reckoned through Adam - meaning that the consequence of his sin passed to all mankind after him.

The first man who we read about in that meaning is Cain - and we are told that sin was crouching at the door of his heart and its (his) desire was for him. To take him captive. But we are also told that it was God who spoke to Him first when his offering was refused. So unless God was deceiving him then he heard the truth.

The account of Adam is the account of the origin of man. It is the male and the female. But we are told that the female (woman) was taken from the man.

None of that is philosophical - it is plain truth. What we ought to call fact - otherwise we are calling God a lair. The term fact may seem very unspiritual - but without come facts all we have is experience. And experience is a poor teacher.

Spiritual authority does not stem from the woman it stems from the man and in that meaning the man is called the head of the woman. I am simply expressing a reality that we often will not see. Despite precepts of equality that we all adhere to when we respect our wives and other women in whatever theatre of life we know women - the woman is not the head of the man. It is that distinction that Satan utilises to spread his poison. It is not even a matter of gender in the way of spiritual adoption in Christ - because in Him there is neither male or female. It is a matter of being in our bodies and it is a material and undoubted fact that men all too often fail to understand that Adam disobeyed God because he listened to his wife. We are not told what his wife said to him. Just that she was deceived and so we only have what we are given. Satan knows it all, however because he was there when it happened. My premise is that if we are likely to understand how deception really works we have to begin with its origination as far as men are concerned.. And it did not originate in Adam. He wasn't deceived.

I was an occult theosopher before I was saved and had ventured into Satanic ambitions to a terrible extent. I got saved radically in 1984 and so I often try to humbly express these things carefully. Most believers haven't got the foggiest clue on how deception really works or why those (like myself) who set about to establish occult orders always number women more favourably than men. Or why men are set to being controlled by demonic spirits through their minds more deeply than women who can be controlled emotionally through their bodies. When a man is demonically driven he takes his own life because he cannot bear with it. When a woman is demonically controlled she passes her children through the fire or satanic ambition. It is simply a reality that whilst unedifying to say it - is a reality of all occult predications and ambitions. It also appears in the churches and it is measurable and visible.

So it doesn't seem too problematic to raise these points in a thread that has it that demons either do or else do not impute their effects into the minds of men and women. They most assuredly do - but men and women can also become demonic themselves simply because they have turned against God openly.

The relevance of making such a clear distinction between Adam and all other men and women who come from his loins is not only a matter of the ambitions of Satan and his utilising the order of God by overthrowing it - it is to stress that men must first look to themselves by loving their wives as Christ has loved his own body (the Church) in order to preserve the order of creation properly and peaceably. Men have the hand of accountability and not their wives. So if we then focus on sisters or our wives we miss that we are accountable and not our sisters or our wives in the home and in the church - despite the decisions made by the elders to appoint women to positions of governance in the churches or else weak husbands who are controlled by their wives to a demand for liberty when liberty means control of the man and the abandonment of his children to a fearful

It's not a philosophy - it is spiritual reality. It is of no importance on a forum, however.

As to this element of my post where I quoted yourself.

it’s just true of any man or woman in this world Satan is present t and always seeking to lead people astray it’s been true from Adam d is still true today

anyone who hears what God said and then hears the opposite and follows that second idea is deceived satans words are deception that’s who he is the deceiver and father of lies

So the in red element:

As I said that statement may be true as long as it is not intentionally including Adam in its general meaning. Satan does try to control people - all men and women in fact through their minds. Not Adam however. He didn't have the power to do that because Adam was a greater than Satan.

And the in black element:

In truth your words are a reference to Adam and were intended to assert a claim that Adam was deceived. He wasn't deceived and that is a singular and profound fact.

Not philosophy and neither imputed intellect. Lacking real intellect doesn't make it difficult to understand simple biblical truth. And neither does a mind of genius give anyone an advantage in spiritual wisdom. As for myself - I went to a special needs residential school for seven years. So intellect isn't something I lay claim to. All that I have now I received on the day I was saved. I knew it all those years ago because I suddenly realised that whilst I could write esoteric mysteries regarding occult matters - I could not function normally intellectually and my life was an unspeakable mess until I found Christ.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 4, 2022

“I assume that you can accept that Adam was not deceived?”

“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Adam represented mankind both male and female until after the woman was deceived by the serpent and the man then heard her words d did the same thing she had done hearing satans

Eve wasn’t named until afterwards by Adam after they were cursed Eve was named independently from her husband

“And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Satans word is always deception always.

“So it follows that Adam was not deceived because that is what we are told in Scripture and that he himself ate the fruit because he listened to his wife. That is also what we are told in Scripture.”

yeah right venoassed the deception on to Adam he listened to the first false doctrine came from the serpent to Eve and then to Adam that’s exactly how Satan works he spreads lies through people who accept them

So Eve listened to Satan Adam then listened to Eve essentially she spread the first false doctrine. That she heard from the devil both her and Adam did the exact same thing and sure Adam blamed her and sure she blamed the serpent.

both of them knew what God said and followed what Satan said instead

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

…. And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said,

Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4, 13, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is it your argument that Adam was obeying eves command as if he was subject to her orders ? Or do you think she probably shared the lie of the serpent with him ? Essentially spreading the false doctrine about the fruit ?

“We are also told that sin is reckoned through Adam - meaning that the consequence of his sin passed to all mankind after him.”

yeah because he is the first man that we all descend from we’re made of the first two sinners so we’re also sinners like they were

“The first man who we read about in that meaning is Cain - and we are told that sin was crouching at the door of his heart and its (his) desire was for him. To take him captive. But we are also told that it was God who spoke to Him first when his offering was refused. So unless God was deceiving him then he heard the truth.”

the first man and woman gave birth to Cain he is made of Adam and Eve. What are you saying Adam wasn’t really a
Man ?

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the origin of man. What follows tells us why we need to be saved at all we weren’t made to be sinners , our parents became sinners d were thier offspring

I think your sort of making jumps ot of what your saying is true but it doesn’t apply like your applying it Cain is adams son the son of man Cain wasn’t a new species of man he’s the son of Adam the son of man

mankind isn’t supposed to die we die because of the curse they brought to themselves we were all inside Adam at that point d that curse applies to all
Of us it’s why we die at all

I think where I don’t agree is when you are making Cain some sort of different kind of man he’s exactly who his father was a sinner the same thing applies to Adam and Eve obviously the serpent is where sin originated it was at thier door trying to get them also and did Cain was warned because of what they did hearkening to Satan

Cain isn’t the first man or the first sinner Adam is both the first man , the first son of God

do you notice how man is traced back not to Cain but Adam ?

“Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t see Cain as some different type of man at all he just came along after they fell from grace and into sin that’s all
Of us though now and why we all need to go to the gospel and be born again

Gods design was never death for us but Adam and Eve led us there as a species now Christ came to restore and redeem us to his own image and likeness so
We need to be born again through the gospel

I find a lot of things in your post that re biblically sound but that part I don’t see it the same Cain was adams son and the product after transgression corrupted us and defiled mans original state of fellowship And peace with God

Blik · Jan 4, 2022

TheLearner said:

I have a friend who attended an exorcist session. They were able to provoke the demon who possessed this person to speak for himself, and not through the person they possessed. It prompted me to read the reports of other exorcist to learn more about demons.

The demons do suggest ideas to people. They work through acceptance of sin as OK. When a little sin is accepted, they use that to build on this acceptance, adding more and more sin to be OK by the human they are influencing. Two authors are Malachi Martin and M Scott Peck.

John Klein and Adam Spears have done extensive research on demons and angels, using both scripture and apocryphal sources. Their books on this subject as fascinating.

reneweddaybyday · Jan 4, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

yes ... the sword of the Spirit ... and we really need all the armor of God in order to be fully equipped to stand and withstand the constant onslaught of the adversary.

Interesting that we read Eph 6:11-17 without any thought that those verses are sandwiched between two vital truths ... be strong the Lord and in the power of His might (vs 10) ... then put on the whole armor of God ... then praying always with all prayer and supplication for all saints (vs 18).

How many believers read Eph 6:11-17 and think they are now equipped to go "take on the devil"?

Grandpa · Jan 4, 2022

2 Corinthians 10:3-6
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Have you ever wondered where thoughts come from? Have you ever tried to bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ?

The bible is not specifically saying that demons put thoughts into your mind. By inductive reasoning we can find out that our imagination and thoughts can be against God.

If we are trying to bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ and we continue to have thoughts and imaginings that are against Christ, against our own will, we can be sure of who is influencing these thoughts. Just as we are sure of who is influencing us to fight these thoughts.

Thank you, Jesus

Blik · Jan 4, 2022

Grandpa said:

Our minds are constantly at work, it is like a continuous tape running through our head. Much of those tapes are programmed by what science calls the subconscrious mind. This mind is programmed by our childhood and by what is put in it during those quiet moments when we are in a dreamlike sleep. Sometimes the thoughts from the subconscious mind harm us and are not Christian. Demons use any of these harmful ideas that are not based on God's truth.

We can make ourselves conscious of what is running through our minds so constantly. We can take care of this mind by being sure what we put in is truth from the Lord and not smut.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 4, 2022

Blik said:

amen that’s why this is our answer

“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The truth is the answer because lies and deceptions are what keeps us bound when we come to the truth we can be free from what kept us bound

jb · Jan 4, 2022

TheLearner said:

You really can't have much of a faith then (certainly not one worth testing), because if you had you'd know by experience the ability of the Devil, evil angels and demons to energise evil thoughts into one's spirit and mind!

TheLearner · Jan 4, 2022

Rhomphaeam said:

Can your experience be the measure of whether unclean spirits do project thoughts into peoples minds? I am assuming that you are not saying that representatively - anymore than I can say as a former occult theosopher that demons are silent!

Books written over 100 years ago tend to have an exemplary grammar. I have a copy of Pilgrims Progress that was published in the 1850's and the grammar is more developed than many of the professionals I know can write - who have graduate qualifications in any number of Humanities' subjects. It was written for children. Imagine that - for a generation that believes itself to be the most educated and advanced generation ever!

You won't find a better book on the subject of demonic warfare against believers than Jesse Penn Lewis - War on the Saints. But then she sets down a clear basis for understanding the activity of Satan in his person and by his legions - corresponding to the neurophysiological man. I think that it is that latter meaning that gives rise to your precept about the seeming reduction of unclean spirits and the minds of men and women. Today we have become wholly given over to vile inclinations and truly appalling ambitions - both in the church and in the world. Why need a demon when a man will do? Yet the worst is to come - we have seen nothing in our life time that prepares us for what is to come. The character of what that will look like was explained by believers such as Jesse Penn Lewis in a rational and well documented manner over 100 years ago grounded in first hand witness of revivals both in the UK and in India in the case of Penn Lewis. It may be worth trying to read her book again.

Friend, I do not see examples of unclean spirits do project thoughts into peoples minds. When Jesus was tested in the wilderness, Satan's projections were all external to Jesus. The Fifth Gospel known as Screwtape Letters testifies of that that.

TheLearner · Jan 4, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

“Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

….And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:1, 4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

….Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:1, 3, 5-6, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s what temptation is the devil offering man ideas contrary to Gods word trying to lead us into sin . it’s been the plight of man since Eden

I think I already covered those texts. Thanks for the encouragement friend.

TheLearner · Jan 4, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

it’s just true of any man or woman in this world Satan is present t and always seeking to lead people astray it’s been true from Adam d is still true today

anyone who hears what God said and then hears the opposite and follows that second idea is deceived satans words are deception that’s who he is the deceiver and father of lies

man is unique among creation because of words we have rational thoughts , we hear and speak words like the creator we’re the only part of creation that does that animals make sounds and have life in them but man is different the word is how we operate the knowledge and thoughts ideas are what drives us on the world

all we have to do is stick to what God says is true then when Satan starts whispering his ideas we will understand and know better having heard Gods word

satans weapon is lies about things God said it’s his only way to corrupt man he doesn’t become a dragon and burn us literally he doesn’t appear as an axe murderer d physically kill he can’t because we were given dominion on earth

his only ploy is to corrupt us in mind and heart of he does we will follow him rather than God and the truth

we speak a lot of spirit but do we realize how connected it is to the word we accept and believe ?

Gods doctrine brings the spirit of God false doctrine seeks to instill a false spirit it’s all based on what man believes

do I believe the fruit will surely cause my death ? Or do I believe what Satan said it’s actually good for me and God doesn’t want me to have it ?

eternally opposite will be Gods word and what Satan spins from it that’s our war and so salvstion remains to hear Gods word in Christ d believe it not letting Satan strip away the truth

My wife will kick me off soon.

TheLearner · Jan 4, 2022

Rhomphaeam said:

The red script could be true were it taken literally and not figuratively of Adam himself. The black text if taken literally yet may be a figure of Adam - is a lie.

And that is the reality of words. Truth or lies are not predicated on experience - they must be established on certain fact. Adam was not deceived 1 Timothy 2:14 - and perhaps more to the point he told God why he disobeyed - because he listened to his wife. And even that doesn't speak of being deceived - but it does speak of motive. Its not important - but if we insist on saying something that is wholly contrary to the plain Scripture then we are likely to go astray when we are trying to share about deception and how Satan works. Adam was not deceived. That is the plain fact of Scripture. It may be of little worth to press the point here but when men wag there fingers at their wives or sisters in the churches they may miss that he who loves his wife - loves himself (Ephesians 5:28). The woman was taken from the man and that is the authoritative order of accountability in all spiritual realities before God that effect men. Sin is reckoned through Adam - even though Eve first transgressed. Satan put nothing into Adam's mind that made a shred of difference to Adam. To say otherwise is to have to believe that Adam was not capable of resisting the Devil. I am not being contentious with you - so I hope that you don't interpret my post in a poor spirit.

I have the virus again and too tired to think.

TheLearner · Jan 4, 2022

Rhomphaeam said:

I assume that you can accept that Adam was not deceived?

I must also presume that you can also accept that Adam told God why he disobeyed Him?

So it follows that Adam was not deceived because that is what we are told in Scripture and that he himself ate the fruit because he listened to his wife. That is also what we are told in Scripture.

We are also told that sin is reckoned through Adam - meaning that the consequence of his sin passed to all mankind after him.

The first man who we read about in that meaning is Cain - and we are told that sin was crouching at the door of his heart and its (his) desire was for him. To take him captive. But we are also told that it was God who spoke to Him first when his offering was refused. So unless God was deceiving him then he heard the truth.

The account of Adam is the account of the origin of man. It is the male and the female. But we are told that the female (woman) was taken from the man.

None of that is philosophical - it is plain truth. What we ought to call fact - otherwise we are calling God a lair. The term fact may seem very unspiritual - but without come facts all we have is experience. And experience is a poor teacher.

Spiritual authority does not stem from the woman it stems from the man and in that meaning the man is called the head of the woman. I am simply expressing a reality that we often will not see. Despite precepts of equality that we all adhere to when we respect our wives and other women in whatever theatre of life we know women - the woman is not the head of the man. It is that distinction that Satan utilises to spread his poison. It is not even a matter of gender in the way of spiritual adoption in Christ - because in Him there is neither male or female. It is a matter of being in our bodies and it is a material and undoubted fact that men all too often fail to understand that Adam disobeyed God because he listened to his wife. We are not told what his wife said to him. Just that she was deceived and so we only have what we are given. Satan knows it all, however because he was there when it happened. My premise is that if we are likely to understand how deception really works we have to begin with its origination as far as men are concerned.. And it did not originate in Adam. He wasn't deceived.

I was an occult theosopher before I was saved and had ventured into Satanic ambitions to a terrible extent. I got saved radically in 1984 and so I often try to humbly express these things carefully. Most believers haven't got the foggiest clue on how deception really works or why those (like myself) who set about to establish occult orders always number women more favourably than men. Or why men are set to being controlled by demonic spirits through their minds more deeply than women who can be controlled emotionally through their bodies. When a man is demonically driven he takes his own life because he cannot bear with it. When a woman is demonically controlled she passes her children through the fire or satanic ambition. It is simply a reality that whilst unedifying to say it - is a reality of all occult predications and ambitions. It also appears in the churches and it is measurable and visible.

So it doesn't seem too problematic to raise these points in a thread that has it that demons either do or else do not impute their effects into the minds of men and women. They most assuredly do - but men and women can also become demonic themselves simply because they have turned against God openly.

The relevance of making such a clear distinction between Adam and all other men and women who come from his loins is not only a matter of the ambitions of Satan and his utilising the order of God by overthrowing it - it is to stress that men must first look to themselves by loving their wives as Christ has loved his own body (the Church) in order to preserve the order of creation properly and peaceably. Men have the hand of accountability and not their wives. So if we then focus on sisters or our wives we miss that we are accountable and not our sisters or our wives in the home and in the church - despite the decisions made by the elders to appoint women to positions of governance in the churches or else weak husbands who are controlled by their wives to a demand for liberty when liberty means control of the man and the abandonment of his children to a fearful

It's not a philosophy - it is spiritual reality. It is of no importance on a forum, however.

As to this element of my post where I quoted yourself.

it’s just true of any man or woman in this world Satan is present t and always seeking to lead people astray it’s been true from Adam d is still true today

anyone who hears what God said and then hears the opposite and follows that second idea is deceived satans words are deception that’s who he is the deceiver and father of lies

So the in red element:

As I said that statement may be true as long as it is not intentionally including Adam in its general meaning. Satan does try to control people - all men and women in fact through their minds. Not Adam however. He didn't have the power to do that because Adam was a greater than Satan.

And the in black element:

In truth your words are a reference to Adam and were intended to assert a claim that Adam was deceived. He wasn't deceived and that is a singular and profound fact.

Not philosophy and neither imputed intellect. Lacking real intellect doesn't make it difficult to understand simple biblical truth. And neither does a mind of genius give anyone an advantage in spiritual wisdom. As for myself - I went to a special needs residential school for seven years. So intellect isn't something I lay claim to. All that I have now I received on the day I was saved. I knew it all those years ago because I suddenly realised that whilst I could write esoteric mysteries regarding occult matters - I could not function normally intellectually and my life was an unspeakable mess until I found Christ.

correct, Adam choose to sin or disobey.

Where does the Bible say Satan or demons put thoughts in your mind?

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