Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law. In the scriptures it's written (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. This is part of the laws written in your inward parts. Paul writing will not help you when it comes to the law (Commandments).

Law of Moses =/= law of Christ

Jesus after his resurrection from the dead was returning to his former glory, God. (John 17:5) "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Yes, with thee before the world was. That's why after Jesus was raised from the dead he made this statement. (Mat. 28:18) And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." It's hard for some people to understand that Jesus came through the Virgin Mary in the flesh, but he has always existed as a spirit being.

Let’s take a closer look to try and better explain this, let's start in Genesis, because that's where the one who became known as Jesus can be seen first. (Gen. 1: 1) It said that; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." But (John 1: 1-3,-10, 14) states" in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. (v.2) The same was in the beginning with God. (v. 3) All things were made by him; (the Word) and without him was not any thing made that was made. (v.10) He was in the world and the world was made by him.

We all know that one of Jesus many names is the Word of God. (Rev. 19:13) So who created the world, was it God? Was it the Word (Jesus)? Yes! They are one in the same (v.14) And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the father,) full of grace and truth. Yes the WORD that was in the beginning with God, was God and was made flesh and dwelt among man. That's why Jesus said give me the glory I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, that was in the beginning.

Let's move on to (Ex. 3:13-14) And Moses said unto God Behold when I come unto the children of Israel and shall say unto them. The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you: and they shall say unto me, what is his name? What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel I am hath sent me unto you. Now Moses asked a direct question and God gave him a direct answer that's very clear.

Let's take a look at; (John 8:56-59) When Jesus was speaking to some of the Jews saying (v.56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him (Jesus) thou are not yet fifty years old and hast thou seen Abraham. Now listen closely how Jesus answered. Jesus said unto them verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was I am. I am, not I will be, or I was, but I am. That's forever present, the one who became known as Jesus was always around, he is the member of the Godhead that became known as the Son.

So there is no law of Moses, it's all the laws of Christ Jesus.

I believe, a super quick over view

When the Exodus took place they had been in captivity for 400 years or so.

The laws given Moses were given to a people who had no idea how to govern themselves and nor how to worship the LORD with correct temple procedure.

If you look at the laws they range from Government all the way down to personal care. They were the laws for running a KINGDOM. THAT kingdom was being rejected, that temple was going down, everyone killed or scattered.

To bring in a New Covenant the first must be abolished. It didn't go away because it wasn't good. It went away for a myriad of changes taking place
So the government laws and all those didn't have anyone to follow them any more. A really good idea is to go read them. It gives a whole different perspective on what went down.

But Sacrificing to GOD (not animals but with our love) had to continue and prayer and repentance and forgiveness of sin did also. But shortly no priests no temples no peoples no country it was time. It was time to go to the heart and mind of the individual person. BUT His words that taught them and us all these things DESCRIBE OUR GOD. Who He is. What He wants. How He works. How He blesses....and how that translates to us today through the NT. One without the other is not even 1/2 the story.

CHRIST took care of ALL THE TEMPLE stuff and all the statutes and ordinances that went with the rituals and stuff that were done there. He became the place to go. He became the Lamb slain. His blood shed covered ALL BLOOD ordinances. CIRCUMCISOM is blood shedding, no more of that. No animals blood shed. He became the priest we went through. He is the altar the showbread the laver etc. the temple that we don't go to physically but we do in our hearts and minds. The 10 commandment, these, these got WAY MORE INTENSE.

We didn't have hardly any laws to follow any more. But you best have faith. And that comes from the words of God.

BEFORE you weren't allowed to kill your neighbor and steal his stuff NOW we aren't even allowed to THINK about killing our neighbor nor wanting his stuff. The 10 commandments have not changed except maybe the Sabbath which isn't really about the 10 commandments but about being created. (AND I have a horse in this race because I rest in the Lord EVERYDAY and so find conflict with others who want a special day. But I am not going to judge any man. GOD WANTS OUR LOVE. GOD WANTS US HOLY SO HE CAN DWELL WITH US. THAT IS THE GOAL.

BUT anything in which you find conviction becomes for you a sin. EVEN if it isn't to your neighbor.

Freedom in the rest of Christ is mistaken by so many as lawlessness. A place without laws to keep everything in place and hold order would be a place of disorder, chaos and confusion. When people do not respect the laws of the land the country goes into rebellion. Rest in Christ is not lawlessness.
Grace covers our lawlessness, but Grace is not an excuse to be lawless.
Keeping the law of love is not a burden when you love Jesus.

I agree with your points, except the point that the sabbath is no longer relavent.
Of all the 10 commandments it is the only one that God said to remember and it isn't about honoring God each day or resting in Christ each day, we should do this regardless. It is about doing what God asked the way God asked because God asked us.
Don't presume that we are free to disobey because Jesus has paid for our sins.
The seventh day was sanctified for a holy purpose.
When did God say to not keep it holy and to forget it?

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

1) Good works are permitted on the Sabbath
2) God works good works through us when we are in Christ
3) Therefore: working is permitted on the Sabbath so long as one is in Christ

Which point of the above do you disagree with?

Doing good is permitted on the sabbath, keeping it like Jesus did. Working works that are not needed like mowing the lawn or cleaning the house in ways that can wait till the next day, or making money from labour that does not need to be done that day is going against the sabbath commandment. Look at the exodus, People went out on Sabbath morning to collect manna and found non.

i disagree =
"Therefore: working is permitted on the Sabbath so long as one is in Christ". When it comes to deciding which works are permitted and which are not it is a personal relationship with Jesus and searching, but to say all work is okay is presumption. Being in Christ does not make void the law. being in Christ will cause the law to be obeyed in the heart even more. being in Christ and making the law void is contradicting itself.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The holy days and sabbath days referred to in Col 2 are the ceremonial sabbaths.

Lev_23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

These sabbaths (not the seventh day sabbath) were given because of sin and were a shadow of things to come. The seventh day sabbath was not a shadow because it was created before sin. The many Sabbaths that pointed to Christ were given after sin and because of sin.

This is an important difference. Keeping the Sabbath is between you and Christ so we should not judge each other on in how we keep it but this does not make the 4th commandment void. This verse is sadly miss used, the context and times will help you to understand why Paul said what he did.

When Jesus was ministering there were so many Sabbath rules that it had become unbalanced and a burden on the people. The leaders thought that by keeping the sabbath holy they would be in Gods good books. Both Jesus and Paul wanted them to understand that it is about Christ and that we can't work our way to Heaven. The law is to be written in our hearts Heb 10:16, and understanding that the 100's of laws that the leaders had enforced were not part of Gods plan is important to understanding why Paul said not to judge each other. Paul does not say the law is made void

"Keeping the Sabbath is between you and Christ so we should not judge each other on in how we keep it" - TMS

Despite your initial claim to disagree, I think you eventually got it. Christ leads us to good works, what might seem like "making a few extra bucks" is between that person and Christ and any action may be good works despite fallible human logic and superficial appearances that gives us the wrong impression.

Could you tell me what Jesus said about it in the NT?

what did did Jesus say about the sabbath and the Ten commandments in the new testement =

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mar_1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Luk_13:10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

Luk_23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Act_13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act_13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act_15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act_18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Be honest the Sabbath was never taken away or the ten commandments. True we are saved by faith but that does not make the law void.

Paul talks against your point in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. So when you quoted all the places in the Bible that do away with this animal sacrificial law, not understanding that Paul talks about two sets of law. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial law sometimes in the same verse you bring destruction to yourselves.

If you want to take it to the law and make people feel guilty then it really isn't setting others at liberty even though it was made for the man. It's alright to do some work. It isn't a HARD FAST LAW. What about all those who DON'T work 6 days a week and CAN'T. They don't need the rest. What if they are already spending their days doing all the things those who work 6 days a week put into that one day. THE YOKE IS LIGHT. It is about the SPIRIT of what is written and not the EXACT law of it. I don't understand why PEOPLE want to put us back into bondage with things like that. USE your head your common sense is what Jesus was trying to tell us and show us. IT ISN'T ABOUT THE LAWS IT'S ABOUT THE SPIRIT.

Do you love the LORD with all your heart? Do you put Him first? ALL those following the exact same guide lines doesn't make ithem more Holy. It's about the HEART and the mind. God wants our love. We have what the LAW never had and that is the HOLY SPIRIT. The Holy Spirit CONVICTS some and not others. YOU DEFINITELY need to do the one day in SEVEN. It is hard upon you. Me, I don't have that conviction at all. I also am not going to judge you in that because OUR individual walks were God are all different and HE LEADS US. We don't have to follow the laws exactly but we do have to follow the Spirit of them. We have to seek out how THEY are meant to HELP us walk more HOLY.


It isn't any different that circumcision . It isn't what we do its WHO WE ARE. Walking in love, charity, taking care of each other...that is what makes us dear to God, not that we follow rules. That is all I am saying. YES, those scriptures mean that to you but that doesn't mean that you make someone who doesn't have that conviction have it. I do understand where you are coming from and I hope I have helped you understand my side. Thank you for the reply

I absolutely do understand the differences between LAWS, STATUTES AND ORDINANCES. I understand all that was nailed to the cross and what wasn't because I under stand what is IN the ark still, the 10

Nailed
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


People don't have a CLUE what the WORK Christ did for us consists of. They don't understand how the temple was set up and all the rituals that went with it. If we don't understand that we CAN'T appreciate the TOTAL value of the GIFT that was given and not just the sacrifice. That is all I was trying to say. SO I am not bringing destruction to myself at all, but that you for looking out for me. Very nice brother

Apologies for the late reply this week...

Acts 21:17-24
17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.

18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.


^This was James' instruction to Paul. Did James make a plan for Paul to bear false witness (ie. break a commandment)?


The Almighty made concessions to Jews?? I think you need to reconsider this view based on the situation in Acts 15 (with the instructions repeated in Acts 21:25). The controversy wasn't about evangelizing Jews but about teaching Gentiles, and specifically, whether circumcision was required of them TO BE SAVED.


Acts 15:1
Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”


The issue was regarding salvation. The question was "Is circumcision of the flesh necessary for salvation?" As regarding Paul preaching against the law, note his own words to the people.


Acts 22:3
I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.


Paul never taught against the law of Moses. What Paul explains in Romans 2 is that circumcision counts for nothing IFFFFFFFFFFFFFF the circumcised person is living as a hypocrite with regard to obeying the law (i.e. they teach the law but don't practice what they preach, relying on their fleshy identification as Jews as if it means they've got their tickets punched for that fact). Meanwhile, a person who has never been circumcised in the flesh - who fulfills the law - is treated as if they ARE circumcised because true circumcision is that of the heart in the spirit.

You do realize Paul and the others were not imposing these measures on the church at large, but for mission purposes only, right? Again, Paul explicitly said that it didn't matter if men get circumcised anymore, but only the "commandments of God" aka the Ten Commandments mattered now: 1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV

I agree with you concerning the Sabbath day and the Commandments, but when it comes to being save, that's a different understanding, because Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death.

But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that need to be put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)