Does One Receive the Holy Ghost the Moment they Believe in Jesus?

But here's your problem:

1. God planted the Tree of Life in the midst of the Garden of Eden to tell Adam and humanity that He wished to give the gift of eternal life to all. That promise is still there in the Bible, but it is conditioned upon obedience to the Gospel. Salvation is for all, but all will not receive Christ as Lord and Savior.

2. Everyone is written in the Book of Life until they are BLOTTED OUT because of their own evil choices. So if God was giving the gift of the Holy Spirit before a person obeyed the Gospel, He would be bound to give it to everyone, so that all would believe.

3. The Bible is crystal clear that the gift of the Holy Spirit which leads to the New Birth is only given to those who repent and believe. In view of this, putting the cart before the horse is simply nonsensical.

yeah because they hadn’t heard there was such a thing as the Holy Ghost lol

paul laying his hands on them has nothing to do with receiving the holy spirit

can I ask if you are lds? That’s definately a core belief of the Mormons.

they hadn’t heard there was such a thing lol that’s pretty much proof they hadn’t heard the gospel that is what tells us about it

They hadn’t heard about the Holy Ghost

“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 21, 23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


they had in fact been baptized by John before Jesus began preaching the gospel ….and taught man about the Holy Ghost

when oaul asks them they reply “ we haven’t heard of such a thing as the Holy Ghost “

they hadn’t heard things like John 14 so they couldn’t receive the spirit they hadn’t heard therefore could not have any faith

it’s pretty simple you can’t receive what you have never heard of that’s why the actual gospel needs to be preached

so one can then believe and receive the promises of Christ one being the holy spirit

“He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:2 KJV‬‬

they hadn’t heard about it that means they could not have had any faith to receive it

Paul’s hands didn’t convey the Holy Spirit That’s silly.

again this is how one receives the spirit it doesn’t require hands being Mayes on the person it only requires hearing and believing the truth

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they hadn’t heard about the spirit until paul brought it up that’s why they then were baptized in Jesus name. But you know if your lds I can see where the idea is coming from

receiving the Holy Ghost is conditioned upon believing the Gospel ( the word of God )

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the thing is receiving the spirit isn’t the same as following the spirit , obeying the spirit and putting the flesh to death

every believer receives the spirit for some it will become a witness against them others will learn to follow after the spirit of the gospel.

being this spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

if we make that connection the word and spirit then we can see why he’s always saying things like this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can actually receive the spirit and then reject the spirits guidance and keep living for sin but then this applies

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christs death comes along with Christs word so we have to learn to follow that spirit of Christ.

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see there’s a difference in receiving the spirit of promise by faith and actually living by faith and following the spirit living after the spirit , following the spirit , being led by the spirit will
Put to death the ideas and desires of the flesh the things of the worlds lusts.

it’s accepting and following Christ that saves us we’re not perfect but also we have to choose sin or Christ and whatever we choose we’re going to live after that even as we aren’t perfect we can repent and start hearing the spirit and following the gospel home

undoubtedly many will explain “ receiving the spiritus automatic salvstion but obviously not according to Hebrews and Romans there along with many other quotes

we can receive the spirit and then quench the spirit by living as if we haven’t received the spirit d are still unspiritual flesh people who lust after every worldly thing we see

we know we have the spirit when our lives start changing from sinner to child of God and that compels us onward

Correct. People should not confuse the gift of the Holy Spirit with walking in the Spirit or the fullness of the Spirit (which also corresponds to the fruit of the Spirit to some extent).

I am not saying that we may not receive the the baptism at the same time as regeneration but that they are two distinct works, it depends upon the fulness of the gospel message preached and believed in, God in general will give you what you believe Him for as it accords with the scriptures, He may sovereignly decide to give a great deal more but His usual modus operandi is to confirm to the letter the word preached.

If like those Ephesian disciples [and a HUGE suave of the evangelical movement] you are not told about the baptism with the Holy Ghost you will not believe God for it and so will not receive it. If preachers do not preach that healing is part of salvation at the cross they will not be healed.

God confirms His word.

I was saved through a pentecostal ministry so I got the full whack.

no it is not a purely Pentecostal doctrine. what it actually is, is a BIBLICAL doctrine. all kinds of believers speak in tongues, pray in tongues etc...I'm one...I am not Pentecostal, having been brought up in a church that eschewed that gift but, like so many churches, thought every second person had the gift of teaching...which of course they did not

while I certainly do not agree with wansvic's oneness views, your view and beliefs are just as egregious and that is a shame since you are so well versed in scripture.

This is an assumption on your part. Many scriptures focus on only one thing, and are silent on others. This concept is true as seen throughout scripture.

Peter explained on the Day of Pentecost that the speaking in tongues that the crowd was hearing was the result of people being filled with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:4, 33) The experience was prophesied. (Acts 2:17-18) Joel's prophecy stated specifically that God's Spirit would be poured out on all flesh. The promise of being filled with the Holy Ghost was available to all, not just a few.

Also relevant, Acts 2:39 expresses that the promise is available to as many as the Lord God shall call. Peter goes on to tell the hearers to save themselves. The group believes Peter message and gladly does their part by obeying the command to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. The promise that they could expect to be filled with the Holy Ghost could have taken place at that time. Or, later as seen in the experience of the Samaritan believers.

Furthermore, your premise that the speaking in tongues associated with the filling of the Holy Ghost was only done as evidence that God accepted the various groups of people is flawed. As seen in Acts 19, the same experience of speaking in tongues occurred when 12 individuals heard and believed Paul concerning aspects of the gospel message. They too spoke in tongues upon being filled with the Holy Ghost and also obeyed the command to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.




Referenced Scriptures:
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 2:38-42
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
KJV


Acts 19:1-7
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
KJV

Your point is not relevant to what I presented. Believing the message does not automatically result in a person being filled with the Holy Ghost. We know this from studying different experiences recorded in the word. This is revealed in the initial experience of the Samaritans as noted in this thread. The people believed Philip's message about Jesus and did their part by obeying the command to be water baptized in His name. But even so, God did not fill them with His Spirit until much later when Peter and John journeyed there and assisted them.

well that is your belief which you learned at your ONENESS PENTECOSTAL church.

EVERY believer in Christ is sealed with the Spirit of God when they are first saved and become a member of God's family

being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues is a separate occurrence and not everyone will speak in tongues, even though you have posted many times that if a person does not speak in tongues they are not saved

And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Ephesians 1:13

what does that say? YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT WHEN YOU BELIEVED THE WORD OF TRUTH

no hoops to jump through as you try to state

no convoluted procedure involving baptism in water or other erroneous teachings of your church

and I will also address your tone. what do you mean his point is not relevant? who are you to dismiss whatever someone else states?

you are not a teacher here...no one is a teacher here...this is a DISCUSSION forum...not a 'I am the final authority' platform for those who believe they alone present any truth

as it is, you plainly do NOT present all the truth as you are directly in conflict with the scripture that plainly shows ALL believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit BUT not all will speak in tongues. those scriptures have been presented multiple of multiple times to you in other threads but you ignore them. that, by the way, does not create a good foundation for what you say you believe

no amount of massaging those truths by you or anyone else, will change what is plain for all to read and comprehend

yeah that’s my belief also. We definately receive the spirit by faith according to belief , but at that point we have to learn to walk upright and we are empowered also to overcome. It truly is the spirit in us making the changes but what we do is to follow after because we believe

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44‬ ‭

I don’t think it’s relevant to you but you can’t accept the above

now will you argue “ we’ll it says the Holy Ghost fell on them ….that’s not the same as being filled with the Holy Ghost …


there’s no fruit for me in this one with you. No one needs to lay hands oaulmhad nothing to do with it it’s Christs promise alone we just need to hear and believe and will receive the Holy Ghost

but anyways I think it’s pretty clear we can receive the spirit by hearing and believing and really that’s the only possible way can’t receive the gospel blessings ( and that’s what the Holy Ghost is) without hearing and believing

anyways I appreciate the time but I just don’t agree with you which is a ok with me . And hope to discuss some other subject in the future

don’t wanna argue about the holy ghost though

I think this part of what you said is important and rings true in scripture

which also corresponds to the fruit of the Spirit to some extent).

I really hear scripture there in that we don’t all produce the same amount of fruits of the spirit but those who bear no fruit and continue on in sin will be cast away

“ For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-9‬ ‭

There’s going to be evidence of the fruits of the spirit if we are following the spirit it’s impossible for it not to change us receiving Gods holy spirit.

while some produce little fruit and others a lot of fruit that part doesn’t matter to salvation but those who never bear fruit of the spirit are headed for fire

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

…If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-3, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I was thinking about the Christians who haven’t heard about the Holy Ghost and amazingly I’ve known Christians who know about Jesus dying and being raised but they have never been taught about the Holy Ghost or heard Jesus teachings about The Holy Ghost , the fruits of the spirit , how to receive and abide in the spirit ect

there’s a lot of incomplete and also erroneous doctrines leading people away from the truth established in the gospel

The biblical record in Acts chapter 10 does state that Cornelius and other Gentiles were filled with the Holy Ghost when the Holy Ghost fell on them. Notice why Peter said that the Gentiles should be allowed to be water baptized in the name of the Lord. He specifically stated it was because they had received the Holy Ghost just as the Jews had on the Day of Pentecost.

Acts 10:47-48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
KJV

If one is truly walking after the Spirit and in the light continually, the sinful nature will eventually be fully eradicated

Does it really matter if baptism is by immersion or not? There seems to be cases in the scripture where people may have been baptised by both Paul and other Apostles without immersion.

Although your comment was not directed to me, I am curious what scriptures you are referring to that suggest baptism without immersion.

Two instances for example

1. When Paul and Silas baptised the keeper of the prison where they were jailed and his household, no mention of immersion in water. Acts 16:33

2. The baptism of Cornelius and his people by Peter as recorded in Acts 10: 44 - 48