Misconceptions

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is greater than faith and hope for charity will go on forever but faith and hope shall cease for they are not needed in heaven.

People can still speak in tongues, there is still prophesy that is yet to happen, and there is still knowledge to attain, but in heaven none of these things will be needed.

God said my people perish for lack of knowledge so why would it cease now.

The other thing is how is Jesus in His coming 'the perfect thing' or 'that which is perfect ' in 1 Corinthians 13?

Jesus is not a 'thing.'. or 'that '





Why would tongues cease when the Church is the Church and if they could speak in tongues back then they can speak in tongues today.

Another group of teachers teaching extra-Biblical false doctrine. I agree, they weren't that different from modern-day Pentecostals in this regard.

Remember it's the gift of knowlege.. not general knowledge, that is the subject of 1 Corinthians 13. The gift is supernaturally empowered, exceptional.. but general knowledge of course would still be around now.

These then must have been witnesses of Christ's ministry and resurrection

I still believe an apostle must have been alive and been an eyewitness to Christ's ministry and resurrection. If these conditions are met then I believe they could be sent out by the Holy Spirit.

In any case you've given me more to consider and study, thank you.

These then must have been witnesses of Christ's ministry and resurrection

What false doctrines did George Fox teach?

Thanks Clint! Oops...I mean Vindicator--I appreciate your offering to come to my defense. And I hope we never come to fisticuffs on this site. I generally don't--that is until I feel I'm under attack.

You said 'powerful men of God again,' You mean like this?:

The standard put forth by Peter and the disciples was


The standard put forth by Peter and the disciples was primarily for that of a witness.

"..one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

Why must he BECOME a witness if he already witnessed the resurrection? Because he's not talking about simply seeing the resurrection, but officially witnessing, legally, that it occurred.

Peter's sermon covers the points within the standard: Jesus' ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension. However, they were commissioned by Christ as apostles before His ascension:

John 20:21 "So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”

This was when they knew they were apostles. Apostles are "sent ones". Here, He sent them (after empowering them). They became apostles at that time.

There were very few who could have met this standard. Only two names were presented as alternatives.

Regarding Timothy, he would have been (at most) a teenager when Jesus ascended to Heaven. Even then, he would not have been a reliable witness given his age. Timothy converted to the faith upon Paul's visit to Lystra which was at least 15 years after the ascension of Jesus. It is doubtful that Timothy would have wandered with Jesus as a boy, did not believe in Christ, returned home to grow up, and later become converted upon Paul's visit. It would not make sense.

Timothy never witnessed the resurrection. But that's okay. That specific qualification is only for the Apostles of the Lamb.

Paul did say this about Timothy:

Paul imparted the spiritual gift to Timothy by the laying on of his hands.

"Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands."

And he wrote this about Timothy's character:

1 Thessalonians 2:2 "..bold in our God to speak to you the gospel of God in much conflict."

1 Thessalonians 2:4 "..approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel..."

1 Thessalonians 2:6 "..did (not) seek glory from men, either from you or from others.."

1 Thessalonians 2:7 "..gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children."

These are elements of the character of the apostles today.

Yes, I was thinking about Timothy's age when I went to bed and when I woke up this morning, since Paul calls Timothy 'son' and another verse says 'don't let them despise your youth' and this one:

"I am reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also."--2 Timothy 1:5

I was going to see if I could find approximate time from Jesus resurrection to Timothy's ministry, but you've done that for me--thank you!

I can say, I do pride myself on checking things out, if I've been given new information and facts. This one is new to me--that the apostles could thru the Holy Spirit name other's as apostles.

But my understanding now is, an original apostle having seen the resurrected lord and witnessed his ministries could appoint others as apostles. However, I think once they had died, there was no one left who could do this. I'll be giving the matte further thought and study--thanks for enlightening me--it's always exciting to make new discoveries in the Scriptures!

in context, it does not seem Paul is saying certain gifts are going to stop while others continue. further, stating that the Bible is that which is perfect is more than a stretch since the Bible was not even in the form we know today and the NT had not yet been completed, but consisted in letter form to different congregations

what is general knowledge and how would that help Christians exactly? when I read that knowledge will pass away, I do not see where Paul intended that to mean only spiritual knowledge...actually, that would not even make sense. so Christians were to retain worldly knowledge, but loose it as pertains to anything of God? not buying that one eitherk

13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have aprophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, bso as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 cIf I give away all I have, and dif I deliver up my body to be burned,1 but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 eLove is patient and fkind; love gdoes not envy or boast; it his not arrogant 5 or rude. It idoes not insist on its own way; it jis not irritable or resentful;2 6 it kdoes not rejoice at wrongdoing, but lrejoices with the truth. 7 mLove bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, eendures all things.

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For nwe know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but owhen the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For pnow we see in a mirror dimly, but qthen face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as rI have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

In regards to the bible being the perfect thing... that is in a future time point for the Corinthians..

Again.. it's a about the special spiritual gift of knowlege. Of course people have spiritual knowledge now.. God given thru applying scripture to their lives, empowered by the Holy Spirit. This isn't the same as the supernatural gift.

In regards to the bible being the perfect thing... that is in a future time point for the Corinthians.. not perfect then and there. Its meaning is also 'mature, complete, lacking nothing's not perfect as in.. unblemished, sinless'... altho the bible in its original form was this also.

2- 'We have knowledge now, so the gifts can't have ceased.'

This one should be obvious, because the context of the spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12-14 is the supernatural gift of knowledge. This is not general knowledge.. it's supernaturally empowered, special, exceptional. So we still have general knowledge now of course.

The other part of this--in scripture-- is when God was using the gifts through people, it wasn't always about the level of their faith. It was God working, objectively, through people with these gifts. Many demonstrations of power and signs to show His work through His people to accomplish particular purposes. When they operated in the gifts-- they just DID IT! Because it was God doing it!

In regards to the bible being the perfect thing... that is in a future time point for the Corinthians.. not perfect then and there. Its meaning is also 'mature, complete, lacking nothing's not perfect as in.. unblemished, sinless'... altho the bible in its original form was this also.

I don't have to verify anything. Believe the Bible and you will see miracles.

Paul was prophesying to the Corinthians about a complete Bible (which would also be perfect, and the same Greek word applies). And when that which is complete has come into existence, then all that is partial is done away with. Peter made it clear that all of Paul's epistles were Scripture (over half the NT). But the book of Revelation and some other epistles were yet to be written. By the time Revelation became a part of the Bible (c 96 AD), the spiritual gifts of apostles, prophets, prophecy, tongues, and supernatural knowledge were not required. By the 2nd century, the New Testament canon had been generally established as noted in the Muratori Canon and the Aramaic Peshitta.

But many are not content to live with just the written Word of God. And many are not content to stick with the tried and true King James Bible either. So we have a constant yearning for ear-tickling and "something new".

Don't you have a phone? Surely you've had opportunities to make videos of the things you've seen. Why don't you upload some of them so we can all see them.

Is there anyone with a phone who had the presence of mind to video a miracle as it was taking place? I mean with all the miracles and all the phones out there you'd think there'd be at least a few videos.

Don't you have a phone? Surely you've had opportunities to make videos of the things you've seen. Why don't you upload some of them so we can all see them.

Is there anyone with a phone who had the presence of mind to video a miracle as it was taking place? I mean with all the miracles and all the phones out there you'd think there'd be at least a few videos.

have you ever had knowledge of something imparted to you that there was no way you could have known it save God by His Spirit let it be known to you?

I've read things from you in the past where you seemed to state you thought certain gifts had reached their best before date

with regards to:



it is obvious if that is how you want to interpret it

once again, the emphasis in this chapter is not on the passing of 3 gifts, but rather on the fact that NONE of the gifts are beneficial without God's love working through it.

I think most people who wish to believe 3 certain gifts no longer operate find it convenient to put the emphasis on something other than love. That love, is supposed to work through ALL the gifts so that would actually tap everyone on the shoulder who thinks they have one of the other gifts.

Is God's love working through that gift you say you have?

as it is, NO gift has ceased but the love of many has grown cold (and that last is not meant for you as I have no idea about you. it's a general observation on the state of Christianity. that love goes both ways...as in, how do we love God?)


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you seem to forget that the faith was already there. they did not have people constantly trying to deny the operation of certain gifts, their faith was real and immediate. in fact, Paul had to tell some to tone it down and do it right...

so yes they 'did it' cause everyone was doing 'it'

it's not at our convenience or belief, but through the Holy Spirit who gives the gifts to whom God chooses

far too many assume they have some gift for teaching or preaching and they do not

IMO, anyone that denies certain gifts cannot, again in my opinion, say what they have is all given by God

it's no different than salvation.

I'm the same. And if we ever do, don't sweat it. I'm kinda like a storm that passes. It may be disconcerting at the time, but the sun always comes back out again afterwards.


Don't recognize him, but he has quite the stash, some very snappy glasses, and a good attitude going there.

Good start. If he has that killer disposition toward the enemy, we got a pure warrior on our hands.

I'm the same. And if we ever do, don't sweat it. I'm kinda like a storm that passes. It may be disconcerting at the time, but the sun always comes back out again afterwards.


Don't recognize him, but he has quite the stash, some very snappy glasses, and a good attitude going there.

Good start. If he has that killer disposition toward the enemy, we got a pure warrior on our hands.

Faith, hope and love are supernatural gifts that continue 😃