Cessation of Gifts

This was correct in this time. That the gifts was given.
But this gift was a gift like all the others.
Since Topeka and Azuza it is taught that speaking in tongues is a sign that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.
Where is it taught to believers in the bible?
What was with all the believers before Topeka? According this teaching non of them had a baptising with the Holy Spirit.

You will realy convince me, to believe a teaching which was not taught in the bible?
That was not found taught in the whole churchhistorie?
What was in beginning companies with behaviours you will find in spiritism?

Is this your "gift of discernment" speaking?

You are joking? Its like an inner warnsystem who tells me something is wrong.
I met in the past occult people and cults which wantet to convince me that there believe is the truth. And the same inward " feeling" I have with this charismatic/ pentecostal teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as proof for that the gift of speaking in tongues.

The Holy Spirit does not "warn you" to stay away from the Gospel of John, Acts and 1 Corinthians when you need understanding in His Gifts.

But your intellect will.

Your inward feeling could be your flesh which is repulsed by The Spirit of God.
The old man of the flesh resists The Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Some of the meanest, coldest and proudest Christians I've met have been dyed in the wool Pentecostals. Followed closely by arch conservatives who believe that God has effectively given up on anything miraculous or spiritual. The Bible is not God. Lord Jesus is the Living Word. And anyone who thinks that the Body of Christ is perfect is deluded.

Spiritual gifts are still as necessary today as ever, maybe more so. For sure the Western church is a mere shadow of the church that shook the world in the early days.

You know how the Holy Spirit works in every person?
You can tell me everything, but not what the Holy Spirit is doing in a believer and what not.

Well, without Holy Spirit i could not discern between truth and lie. Correct?

You can explain it away so long as you want.
I know that I am a child of God.
Why I should believe an doctrine which I dont find taught in the bible?

John and Charles Wesley taught the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They were very balanced and had the right basis. Someone told me that Wesley spoke on tongues, but I can find nothing to verify that. He also emphasised fruit over gifts.

The over emphasis on tongues does believers a disservice as it distracts from the real work of the Holy Spirit. I spoke in tongues when I received the baptism of the Spirit. I don't now. I just don't have the desire. The gifts can be counterfeit. Fruit cannot be fake.

HS7 is the Spirit of Truth, He only leads us into Truth when we speak of the Gifts of the Spirit and that Truth is found in Gospel of John, Acts and 1 Corinthians.

You have been arguing against His Truth found in His Word and therefore speak on your own accord - carnal/religious intellect.

Nobody here is telling you to become a 'Pentecostal' or to follow doctrines of men - that stems from your disrupted thought patterns.

Actually, it was not in Topeka or on Azuza St. When you say " this is correct in this time " Is ridiculous. Where do you think you have the ability to look at the word of God and say Tongues are not for today without any scripture to say that at all?

What was taught by Pelham and Rev, Williams Seymour was the Empowering of the Holy Spirit is for today and Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit as the Gospel of John chapter 1 says.

In addition, it seems that Rev. Williams an African American man with one eye had better observation of the text than you. And has applied it correctly from what he saw in the very word of God

Your issue is the teaching of initial evidence. I think that is a sub-issue because you don't believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today anyway. Or you have not seen it to agree with it as being for today because you focus on those who abuse it. I will address that too in Acts 8

What did
Rev? Williams see in the word of God to make such a claim?

1. the apostles in the upper room were already saved. If one thinks that Jesus who rose from the dead and stayed with them for 40 days and they were not saved after all called HIM Lord and seeing Him ascend into heaven. You don't know the word of God.

2. on the day of Pentacost the Holy Spirit came upon them and they all spoke in tongues.
this happened repeatedly each time the word of God records those who received the empowering of the Holy Spirit.

the empowering of the Holy Spirit can happen at salvation, after salvation, or before or after water baptism. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is not for salvation it is as Jesus said " Power to be a witness". Acts 1:8 and John 14-16 chapters


The Book of Acts records Cornleious house they spoke in tongues or prophesied Acts 10:46
The disciples in Antioch who Paul met spoke in tongues Acts 19:6

Simon the sorcerer in Acts provided a lot of insight into this.

Acts 8:9, 12-17


9 Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great,
Even the people thought this man was something great.

verse 12 says

12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.


what did he see?


14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers ( those who were saved) there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.


Now, this is a very important text.

First off this passage in Acts 8 says they were already saved YET they did not have the Holy Spirit come upon them.

those in Oneness take that verse and use it to say they were not saved. The very text says " they believed" which means they were saved.


The word of God says you receive the Holy Spirit IN YOU when you are saved I am saying Amen! that is what the word of God says and what Jesus said would happen in John chapter 14 through 16.

Acts 1:8 said you will receive salvation after the Holy Spirit comes upon you? No, he said POWER to be a witness. They were already saved according to the word of God.

what does that mean? The empowerment is not for salvation but to be a witness of the Resurrected Lord as Jesus said you will be my witnesses. Acts 4:33 says it what they witnessed to.

We have the very word of God with those in ACTS 8 WHO WERE SAVED, YET RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRT after that, not in them, but upon them the text says.

what did Simon see? that he wanted to pay money for? This saved man according to Acts 8.

18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

This man clearly saw something, what was it? the word of God doesn't say yet we do have more than one account that when the Apostles laid their hands on those in Acts 10 and 19 they spoke in tongues.

This man did not hear a mighty wind or see the fire he heard something. it is more than a guess it was speaking in tongues.

FYI this was the normal action recorded in the starting of the early church in so much that Paul taught on the gifts in three chapters in 1cor 12 through 14 and in Eph chapter 4 and in other locations of the New Testament, IN addition, Jesus teaching it in Mark 16.

there Holy Spirit works in every person as Jesus and the word of God says by that logic you can't say anything about those who you see and think to abuse the Gifts.

Bark like a dog. "You know how the Holy Spirit works in every person?"

tell people the Lord said give me a $1000 "You know how the Holy Spirit works in every person?"

your bias has lined you to agree with those you say are in error. Your human reasoning has betrayed you LOl.

This is KEY = You said: "the apostles in the upper room were already saved. If one thinks that Jesus who rose from the dead and stayed with them for 40 days and they were not saved after all called HIM Lord and seeing Him ascend into heaven. You don't know the word of God."

This is ABSOLUTE TRUTH

That you react in this way Is understandable from your point of view. But you claime to know how the Holy Spirit works in the believer and judge them if the believer has a different expierience like you.
Should I believe you, because of your words?
Show me from the scripture that this was taught to other believers and i will believe you because the bible tells it so.
The Holy Spirit will not reveal what is against that what is taught in the bible.

An doctrine which is not found taught in the bible is an man made doctrine.
If you put verses together, so that they fit to an doctrine makes is not biblical. Many do so.

There is a broken record playing in your head - trash it and replace it with Gospel of John, Acts and 1 Corinthians.

Those THREE are a SYMPHONY from Heaven.

You can attack my understanding all you want friend, but you must see the very Word of God to refute what I said in context to the Word of God. Nothing you have said proves my understanding contextually is in error.

Please provide from the word of God your position, not human reasoning or bias opinion.

I need to see Bible.

thank you,

I certainly am not saying you are not a Christian

however, you do not have to be a Christian in order to separate truth from lies

people do that all the time.

the first manmade doctrine that comes to mind, because of this thread, is the one where people say that which is perfect is the Bible so no more tongues

they forget that also includes prophecies (although many still to be fulfilled) and knowledge....some do behave as though they have no knowledge but most would agree that knowledge is still around