Sheol

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I like it. I don't know if its accurate, but I am willing to believe if it can be demonstrated. Thank you!

1 Peter 3:18-20 NLT – "Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison – those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood."

Was Samuel waiting for the Day of Christ, to put his Faith in Christ so that he would be "made right with God?"

Romans 3:25-26 NLT – "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

If I am wrong about these things, then I have written a tremendous amount of material that is utterly wrong . . . Lord help and forgive me.

Abram believed the Lord, and his faith was counted as righteousness. He was looking forward to the Lord's coming, though; Jesus said he saw it and was glad. When Jesus preached to those in prison, it says it was to those who disobeyed God. Can you give an example of someone not being punished for their sin? The Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and David's son by Bathsheba died; Moses was not allowed to enter the Holy Land. God killed Onan for depriving his sister-in-law of child. What punishment was withheld? Just curious, as many of the laws meted out punishment for transgression also. Many do not believe in the ultimate and final destruction of the wicked in the second death. Is that the punishment that was withheld which is now operative at a future unknown date following the resurrection and judgment of all at the end of this age?

It is essential (to me) that I understand this concept (Sheol) and how it relates to the below text/Scriptures. So much of what I know about the Gospel revolves around the idea that I am trying to get to the bottom of below. If I am wrong, my bones will shudder out of false teaching. And it is True; I do not read commentary; I would much rather speak with any and ALL of you at ChristianChat (first).

@posthuman

@justbyfaith

What do we all think? When Samuel was summoned "up," was he in the same place as those held and waiting for the Day of Christ to put their Trust in Him? (See below.)

1 Samuel 28:13-14 NLT - "Don't be afraid!" the king told her. "What do you see?" "I see a god coming up out of the earth," she said. "What does he look like?" Saul asked. "He is an old man wrapped in a robe," she replied. Saul realized it was Samuel, and he fell to the ground before him."

Below, was Samuel waiting for the Day of Christ in this place called Sheol . . . Prison?

1 Peter 3:18-20 NLT – "Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison – those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood."

Was Samuel waiting for the Day of Christ, to put his Faith in Christ so that he would be "made right with God?"

Romans 3:25-26 NLT – "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

If I am wrong about these things, then I have written a tremendous amount of material that is utterly wrong . . . Lord help and forgive me.

1 Peter 3:18-20 NLT – "Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison – those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood."

Hello Timothy! I'm not sure what you're searching for with this. There is much scripture to be brought in to explain the situation concerning Samuel.

Are you searching for where Samuel was after his death and why, or are you more concerned with how he was saved?

Here's what I put in another post on a different thread, about 1 Peter 3:18,19,20 ("the spirits in prison") -

Post #1257 - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-are-you-thoughts-on-annihilation.201874/post-4689181

Here's what I put in another post on a different thread, about 1 Peter 3:18,19,20 ("the spirits in prison") -

Post #1257 - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-are-you-thoughts-on-annihilation.201874/post-4689181

One of the best topics that could be discussed here. I looked at this some years ago and was overcome by what I found.
Sheol is from the Hebrew text and Hades from the Greek texts'
Sheol and Hades have the same meaning--the abode for all the dead-both righteous and unrighteous.

Jacob said: All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and said, “No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.” Thus his father wept for him. The problem is many translations took the word Sheol and make it grave.

Jacob had no thoughts of being buried with his son Jacob in a grave because he was told he was torn to bits by wild animals, but to enter a intermediate place for souls. This takes much study to find what is being taught is wrong. Sheol and Hades are the same place in my studies but seperated by a barrier just like in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. A place of torment (not lake of fire) and Paradise.

To go even deeper where the scripture in every english translation says ---- God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. I have several greek scholars that tell me they believe this to be wrong. Also they tell me it could be right but their take on this is it says----- God will bring (up) with him those who have fallen asleep. To me it makes more sense since it refers to a resurrection.

One could spend months looking at this topic. Take the prophet Samuel you mentioned --The correct translation says gods not a single god. I believe myself these were demons not the prophet Samuel. If you check the scriptures Saul was told he would die tomorrow but it was about a week later he was killed. These evil spirits knew Saul had fallen out of favor with God but didnt know the exact day and that is a telling sign it wasnt Samuel.

Hi there Charlie! I apologize for the long reply (for even I struggle to read long posts from others), but I am hoping that my response to you is worthy of all our time.

Great questions. Yes, I am extremely concerned with where Samuel came "up" from. I find this to be incredibly fascinating. And yes, as I consider my studies of the entire Bible, I am also fascinated with how these people could be Righteous, Holy, and Pure, BEFORE the life, death, and Resurrection of Christ. A few translations state that Samuel appeared to be as a god as he "came up."

So, Samuel is an example for all Righteous, Holy, and Purified men and women of the Old Testament. When they died, where did they go? And if they are in a different place from those who will never see the Light of Heaven, why would Jesus need to go and "Preach to the spirits" if they were already considered to be Righteous and Holy? Is it possible that some of these people would reject Christ?

Consider the NLT (for ease of possible understanding) passages below:

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

It seems that these people would be the ones who were peached to/at while in Prison, for they were even seen walking around immediately after Christ had risen from the dead. The "Prison" passage is below:

1 Peter 3:18-20 NLT - "Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison--those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood."

Granted, these are people who apparently lived before the Flood . . . so . . . I might be putting things together that ought not be.

Below, however, we find the results of those who were preached to while in "prison."

Matthew 27:51-53 NLT - "At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead. They left the cemetery after Jesus' resurrection, went into the holy city of Jerusalem, and appeared to many people."

My thinking about this stems from what I believe the True Gospel is all about, which is the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ. They are as follows (as I understand the Bible to explain):

1. - Jesus Circumcises the Heart from the Curse of the Lord.
2. - Jesus grants the ability to Repent.
3. - Jesus sends the free Gift of the Holy Spirit.
4. - Jesus pays the debt for all sin, for all people, which is the final act that takes a person from being Blameless, Righteous, and Holy, to being "Made Right" with God.

The idea is that Christ has been performing the first three Works since the beginning of time, and at least since Abel, for Scripture tells us that Able was the first True Prophet of God. The only way that David, for example, could consistently write about his Salvation, is if he were lifted of the Curse of the Lord, for nothing can be considered Righteous if it is corrupt . . . it is fundamentally impossible.

These are the reasons for why I claim that we must understand the Work of Christ if we are to understand the True Gospel. So, if we can explain why we are to have the exact same Faith that Abraham had, this will help us to understand what that "One Faith" and "One Baptism" are all about.

I love our Bible so much, I just want to make sure that I am not teaching things that are wrong. I simply could not stomach myself if I knew that I was wrong in any way, shape, or form. So if you have any ideas (at all) I would be incredibly grateful and thankful.

As my signature states, I want to "get it right" instead of egotistically "be" right. So I humbly offer myself to each of your feet . . . all people here . . . to ensure that I am, in fact, getting things right. I believe that it is our collective efforts that we should come to understand the Truth of our Lord and His Mysterious Plan.

I need each member of ChristianChat . . . you are all very important to me and I need you all. All ideas are welcome and encouraged.

Hello Timothy! Brother, you paint with a large brush, lol. Lots of stuff to cover in that post!

Let's start with how the Old Testament saints were saved and work our way to Samuel.

Every person who has ever been saved since the creation of man has been saved by faith in the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

The OT saints were saved by looking forward to the coming Messiah. The sacrifice for sin that God demanded in the Law of Moses represented the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross for their sins. By faith in that animal sacrifice salvation was made possible, not the keeping of the Law in which they could not keep.

The sacrifice of an innocent animal goes back to the Garden of Eden when God killed two animals for Adam and Eve for coats, the blood of those animals was spilt for their sin. We next see the sacrifice with Cain and Abel, Abel brought forth an animal sacrifice before God and was accepted, Cain brought forth a sacrifice of herbs from the field as was rejected by God.

Then we see Abraham building an alter for sacrifices of animals. All these sacrifices had to be an animal that represented the sacrifice of Christ. It was the innocent blood spilt by that animal that represented the Blood spilt by Christ on the Cross for our sins.

Since Christ paid the sin debt in full on the Cross there is no need for animal sacrifices. Today we look back at the Messiah who was crucified for our sins as they looked forward to His sacrifice.

Remember the seer was not a godly person, the only one who saw the vision.

Nice. Our studies have brought us to the same conclusions. What is new to me, however, is the idea of the animals being killed to make a covering for Adam and Eve. That is very, very intuitive, and makes ALL proper sense. Seriously, that idea is 100% with the Purpose and Work of Christ. I'll be adding your comments to my commentary regarding this matter. A . . . amazing!

Thank you for your input, Omega!

I'm struggling with what you mean, here. Are you saying that Samuel and Saul didn't actually have this conversation, that Saul did not bow to Samuel" These things were not real, but only a vision? Interesting, I don't recall there being a vision involved in this, and if anything, only vaguely.

Luke 4:8 KJV - "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Saul bowed before Saul as though a god. May not mean much, but I find it interesting.

Thanks again . . . much respect for your input!