If the Rapture is true, just who are the saints beheaded by the Antichrist?
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Ive often wondered about that too, when will the anti-christ be revealed? II Thessalonians 2: 7-8 : For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that WICKED be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: ( KJV )
In Matthew 24:29-31, Jesus returns after the tribulation to gather His elect. Gathering His elect is what Jesus does in the rapture. Matthew 24:29-31 does speak of the rapture after the tribulation.
This narrative of Jesus returning to gather His elect is repeated in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.
This narrative of Jesus returning to gather His elect is repeated in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.
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Wrong. Gathering the elect is another way to speak of the rapture:
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Here the gathering/rapture is associated with the second coming. This same exact thing is found here:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Yes it does. Two events are FIRST before the second coming happens:
1. The Apostasy.
2. The revealing of the MoS.
Not grasping what all of it is about is your error. You are wrong on every single thing in this barely readable post.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Here the gathering/rapture is associated with the second coming. This same exact thing is found here:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Yes it does. Two events are FIRST before the second coming happens:
1. The Apostasy.
2. The revealing of the MoS.
Not grasping what all of it is about is your error. You are wrong on every single thing in this barely readable post.
It is sad that your friend could not show you where it was in the bible. Here it is:
1 Cor 15
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
And also:
1 Thess 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
As you can clearly read there is going to be a time in the future when there will be a particular generation of believers who will not die but while alive will be changed to a glorified immortal state equal to that of those who are resurrected from the dead.
This is called the rapture because it is the English word of a Latin word from the Greek word that was translated "caught up" in the text above. So if you or any of your friends are offended by the word "rapture" Then just read both of these passages without taking a breath, and then they will finally understand why a using a single word is so much more convenient. LOL
Of course reading both passages is important to educate those who are unaware of this topic, but once both passages are read and understood, it then becomes convient to refer to this EVENT as the rapture, providing your audience knows what passage we are referring to.
Now that this EVENT explained in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 will occur is not up for debate. Therefore one should not say they do not believe in the rapture. That is like saying they do not believe that Paul was telling the truth. It is usually the timing of the rapture that is in question. Some believe that the rapture will occur before the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God is poured out as described beginning about Rev 6 forward. Some believe that the rapture occurs in the middle of the tribulation and some believe that the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation but most evangelicals believe in the event occurring at some point when the Lord Returns and there will be a people alive at that time who WILL NOT SEE DEATH. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and be given the same kind of immortal bodies as those who did die and are resurrected. This EVENT WILL OCCUR. It is the blessed hope of the saints and should be preached and used to comfort one another as we wait for his appearing which will mean the glorification of our bodies and our gathering to be with Him.
1 Cor 15
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
And also:
1 Thess 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
As you can clearly read there is going to be a time in the future when there will be a particular generation of believers who will not die but while alive will be changed to a glorified immortal state equal to that of those who are resurrected from the dead.
This is called the rapture because it is the English word of a Latin word from the Greek word that was translated "caught up" in the text above. So if you or any of your friends are offended by the word "rapture" Then just read both of these passages without taking a breath, and then they will finally understand why a using a single word is so much more convenient. LOL
Of course reading both passages is important to educate those who are unaware of this topic, but once both passages are read and understood, it then becomes convient to refer to this EVENT as the rapture, providing your audience knows what passage we are referring to.Now that this EVENT explained in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 will occur is not up for debate. Therefore one should not say they do not believe in the rapture. That is like saying they do not believe that Paul was telling the truth. It is usually the timing of the rapture that is in question. Some believe that the rapture will occur before the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God is poured out as described beginning about Rev 6 forward. Some believe that the rapture occurs in the middle of the tribulation and some believe that the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation but most evangelicals believe in the event occurring at some point when the Lord Returns and there will be a people alive at that time who WILL NOT SEE DEATH. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and be given the same kind of immortal bodies as those who did die and are resurrected. This EVENT WILL OCCUR. It is the blessed hope of the saints and should be preached and used to comfort one another as we wait for his appearing which will mean the glorification of our bodies and our gathering to be with Him.
https://www.mylife4jesus.co.za/index_files/Page559.htm
No the rapture is in the Bible.. The word rapture is latin for being ""caught up"" this is Biblical;;
1 Thessalonians 4: KJV
16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
The Saints who are alive and remain on earth at the time of the LORD Jesus return will be caught up ( raptured ) to meet the LORD Jesus at His second coming..
1 Thessalonians 4: KJV
16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
The Saints who are alive and remain on earth at the time of the LORD Jesus return will be caught up ( raptured ) to meet the LORD Jesus at His second coming..
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Hi saintrose,
Oh my second name is `rose.` We have that in common.
Actually the `rapture,` the catching away is in God`s word, read 1 Thee. 4: 13 - 18. Quite a bit of detail there. We are NOT in darkness, and have been `saved,` from God`s judgments.
The Body of Christ is being brought to maturity in Christ and then we will be caught away to meet the Lord in the air and go to our eternal setting in glory. What a hope, our heavenly inheritance with the Lord forever. (Eph. 4: 13, Rev. 3: 21)
As to those in the trib, they call out to God and in His great mercy saves them.
1. Great Multitude - die of hunger, thirst and/or heat. (Rev. 7: 9 - 16)
2. Those beheaded for their witness of God and the Lord. (Rev. 15: 1 - 4, 20: 4) These ones believe that Jesus is Israel`s Messiah and will come and set up His physical rulership through Israel over the nations.
Too many people seem to think that `we,` the Body of Christ are the center of God`s purposes, when actually it is Christ. He is the center of God`s word and it is all about His character and God`s purposes through Christ for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. get that muddled up and the Bible becomes all about me, and thus confusing.
Oh my second name is `rose.` We have that in common.
Actually the `rapture,` the catching away is in God`s word, read 1 Thee. 4: 13 - 18. Quite a bit of detail there. We are NOT in darkness, and have been `saved,` from God`s judgments.
The Body of Christ is being brought to maturity in Christ and then we will be caught away to meet the Lord in the air and go to our eternal setting in glory. What a hope, our heavenly inheritance with the Lord forever. (Eph. 4: 13, Rev. 3: 21)
As to those in the trib, they call out to God and in His great mercy saves them.
1. Great Multitude - die of hunger, thirst and/or heat. (Rev. 7: 9 - 16)
2. Those beheaded for their witness of God and the Lord. (Rev. 15: 1 - 4, 20: 4) These ones believe that Jesus is Israel`s Messiah and will come and set up His physical rulership through Israel over the nations.
Too many people seem to think that `we,` the Body of Christ are the center of God`s purposes, when actually it is Christ. He is the center of God`s word and it is all about His character and God`s purposes through Christ for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. get that muddled up and the Bible becomes all about me, and thus confusing.
No, obviously you, like most post-tribbers, are having reading comprehension problems . Ok let me help you, you appear to be in darkness on this issue, i said TRIBULATION saints as is foretold in the book Revelation . The rapture ( and please dont say rapture is not in the Bible like most post-tribbers say, if you need help with that let me know ) is in 3 phases: 1. First fruits 2. main harvest 3. Gleanings
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Okay - and, you can start (it would be good/ideal) by explaining - with relevant scripture - how the rapture is in 3 phases - keeping in mind that Jesus is/was indeed the 'first fruits' (resurrection, not rapture) but was not "raptured"...
The rapture only applies to the saints - when they are "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming.
The rapture only applies to the saints - when they are "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming.
Appears you have the same false post-trib doctrin but i wasn't replying to you. But yes Jesus had ( and has) a glorified body when he rose from the dead, this is common knowledge, where did you go wrong ?
Looks like the post-tribbers are coming out of their holes LOL ! They dont like being exposed.
Looks like the post-tribbers are coming out of their holes LOL ! They dont like being exposed.
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Pre-tribbers always insult other people like this. No surprise there.
Second personal insult. This should tell everyone to ignore everything you say because you litter your posts with Ad Hominems.
Zero post-tribbers say there is no rapture because post-trib means the rapture comes post-trib.
You have everything wrong in this post. The rapture is not in three stages either. That doesn't come from the bible. Neither does a pre-trib rapture for that matter.
Second personal insult. This should tell everyone to ignore everything you say because you litter your posts with Ad Hominems.
Zero post-tribbers say there is no rapture because post-trib means the rapture comes post-trib.
You have everything wrong in this post. The rapture is not in three stages either. That doesn't come from the bible. Neither does a pre-trib rapture for that matter.
I would appreciate it if you would respond to these verses. I find it outrageous that someone would continue to tell people to stop speaking the word of God on this Christian forum.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Abraham asked the Lord "Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?" The answer was no.
Enoch was raptured before the flood.
Noah and 7 other souls (signifying the 7 golden lampstands?) entered the ark 1 week prior to the flood (7 years?) that was God's judgement on the Earth.
Jesus told us the end of the age would be as the days of Noah.
The book of Revelation from chapter 2-3 is completely focused on the church age. Chapter 4 begins saying "after this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be heareafter". John is raptured to the throne room, we don't hear of the church until Revelation 19 when it says the church returns again to the Earth as the Bride.
Psalm 18:16 He reached down from on high and took hold of me;
he drew me out of deep waters.
17 He rescued me from my powerful enemy,
from my foes, who were too strong for me.
18 They confronted me in the day of my disaster,
but the Lord was my support.
19 He brought me out into a spacious place;
he rescued me because he delighted in me.
The pre tribulation rapture is the Lord rescuing us from a powerful enemy.
Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
1Thessalonians 5:3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
If you are there when the AntiChrist says "peace and safety" you will not escape and yet the Lord told us to pray that we might escape. Hmmm?
Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
This word is to the church in Sardis, they are believers. It seems very obvious from this verse that there are two potential outcomes to the believers, when the Lord returns.
Luke 12:39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”
Ready for what? The Lord's return is likened to a thief in the night and He is warning the believers they "need to be ready" because "He will come at an hour when you do not expect Him". Again, two outcomes, one where there are believers who are ready and watching when the Lord returns and one for those believers who are befuddled and are not ready.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Abraham asked the Lord "Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?" The answer was no.
Enoch was raptured before the flood.
Noah and 7 other souls (signifying the 7 golden lampstands?) entered the ark 1 week prior to the flood (7 years?) that was God's judgement on the Earth.
Jesus told us the end of the age would be as the days of Noah.
The book of Revelation from chapter 2-3 is completely focused on the church age. Chapter 4 begins saying "after this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be heareafter". John is raptured to the throne room, we don't hear of the church until Revelation 19 when it says the church returns again to the Earth as the Bride.
Psalm 18:16 He reached down from on high and took hold of me;
he drew me out of deep waters.
17 He rescued me from my powerful enemy,
from my foes, who were too strong for me.
18 They confronted me in the day of my disaster,
but the Lord was my support.
19 He brought me out into a spacious place;
he rescued me because he delighted in me.
The pre tribulation rapture is the Lord rescuing us from a powerful enemy.
Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
1Thessalonians 5:3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
If you are there when the AntiChrist says "peace and safety" you will not escape and yet the Lord told us to pray that we might escape. Hmmm?
Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
This word is to the church in Sardis, they are believers. It seems very obvious from this verse that there are two potential outcomes to the believers, when the Lord returns.
Luke 12:39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”
Ready for what? The Lord's return is likened to a thief in the night and He is warning the believers they "need to be ready" because "He will come at an hour when you do not expect Him". Again, two outcomes, one where there are believers who are ready and watching when the Lord returns and one for those believers who are befuddled and are not ready.